Iron Coffins

[GoldenRivet]

Im about 75% of the way through the book "Iron Coffins" which i have been meaning to read for a couple of years now.

with every page i turn, the difficulty inherent to GWX makes more and more sense.

quite a disgusting tactical situation these u-boat men faced... i knew it was bad, but the book paints a bleak picture of a surreal world that changed from delightful bliss to hellish despair in the matter of a month's time.

I highly recommend the book... especially for those who complain that GWX is too hard... half way through Werner's personal accounts i came to the realization that there are so many aspects of the war that not even the great GWX could simulate and because of this... if anything, GWX is far too easy.

what a wasteful nightmare the u-boat force had to endure after March of 1943 when the tables of war turned so dramatically against them.

[Jimbuna]

Yep.....75% loss rate for personnel certainly backs up your findings

[GoldenRivet]

Jim was iron coffins a large source of research into the development of GWX?

i read each passing page of the book with mounting frustration as if i had been there.

the author speaks of constantly diving to evade aircraft, barely able to recharge batteries to 60-70% charge before being forced down again.

all they wanted to do was go out and sink ships carrying war materials into Britain... all they actually got after early 43 was a constant harassment from sea and sky.

anyone who has played well into 1943-44 in GWX knows this pattern well. all we want to do is get into some action against ships... all we get is constant bombardment from above.

on another note:

as an Englander or American or Canadian we grow up knowing that the Nazis were the "bad guys" and we read books and watch movies in which scores of "jew killing, hateful krauts" are killed much to the glory of "our side"

but the more and more i read of books like "Steel Boat, Iron Hearts" and "Iron Coffins" the more it hits home that most of these soldiers and sailors of Germany were just normal men with families and girlfriends and children and wives...

... except for the uniforms and the language spoken... these stories could have easily come from men on either side of the front lines.

bottom line i guess... war is ugly... its uglier when you listen to both sides of the story.

[FIREWALL]

I'm on my 4th or 5th read. Everytime I find more and more things.

I agree with GR. And it's a hard book to put down.

[nikbear]

I think thats what saddens me when I look at the U-boat picture's thread,Don't get me wrong,I'm glad we allies won,without that I doubt I'd be here today,But when you look at all those smiling faces in the "Happy times"so proud and enthusiastic,and yet in a matter of years the great majority would be dead,with no known grave......Such a tragic waste of human life and what hell they're last moments must have been

[Otto Heinzmeir]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

snip
.....I highly recommend the book... especially for those who complain that GWX is too hard... half way through Werner's personal accounts i came to the realization that there are so many aspects of the war that not even the great GWX could simulate and because of this... if anything, GWX is far too easy.

I agree GWX is too easy. If it was much harder I don't think as many would play it. Its hard on a person's ego to dodge DC's for 10 hours, only sink one ship and always get killed after 2 or three patrols.

GWX could easily be tweaked to be much harder by increasing the probability of air attacks and making the Escorts sensors even more sensitive.

Myself I like to have some sense of control in a game, because real life sucks sometimes. So I'm content to get a glimpse of what a RL Kuelan went through but I like having a bit better odds than they did.

btw I have to read that book. Great write up you did. I have a hard time reading an entire book. In the past 5 years Iv'e finished maybe two. (Short attention span) I tend to get blue when I read graphic stuff like actual accounts of the American Civil War and the description of battlefields afterwords. Gruesome. Its sad that people are capable of War. Kinda ironic that it makes a great game.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Jim was iron coffins a large source of research into the development of GWX?

Yes and no is the answer.

Many of the GWX team had obviously read the book (along with many others and alternative means of research such as internet, film archives etc).

I like to think Iron Coffins (and many other books plus the aforementioned research) were a great source for getting the 'feel' for what it must have been like in RL.

GWX is a mix of realism, historical accuracy and game playing immersion.

One size will never fit all but as you now are well aware.....we strive to do our best

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Yes and no is the answer.

Many of the GWX team had obviously read the book (along with many others and alternative means of research such as internet, film archives etc).

I like to think Iron Coffins (and many other books plus the aforementioned research) were a great source for getting the 'feel' for what it must have been like in RL.

GWX is a mix of realism, historical accuracy and game playing immersion.

One size will never fit all but as you now are well aware.....we strive to do our best

And all of you have done just that.

[Otto Heinzmeir]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

GWX is a mix of realism, historical accuracy and game playing immersion.

One size will never fit all but as you now are well aware.....we strive to do our best

So true. I think the GWX team struck a good balance. Its a great mod!

[Sir Big Jugs]

Iron Coffins is indeed a gripping account of what it really was like away from the Nazi propaganda reels about huge U-Boat successes; the late-war descriptions in particular were to me a fascinating read.

I can't imagine what it must have been like, leaving for sea, knowing full well the sheer hopelessness of the task ahead and seeing so many vessels not returning.

Such a waste it seems.






I don't wish to hijack the topic, but if anyone of you can recommend any other good books on the U-boat war in WWII I'd appreciate it, I've only read Iron Coffins and would be interested in reading more about the U-boat war, as told by those that experienced it.

[GoldenRivet]

I would venture to say just as a matter of opinion - that from a sailor's point of view, and not the point of view of a commander - "Steel boat, Iron Hearts" is a wonderful personal account.

it is a fantastic read.

[Oneshot/Onekill]

War is maddness. Started more often than not by a mad person or person's. It's a controlled chaos, in which the end objective is the extermination of human life. The taking of one thing or many things that don't belong to you and using them to you'r own ends. Wars are what happens when we hate out of ignorance, fear what we do not understand, and lust for what we do not possess.

I have been. I have seen. I have committed.

I have to look at myself in the mirror everyday for the rest of my life. This is the last time I will speak of this. Now moving on. I am glad GWX didnt make it too realistic, it is nice to know it is still a game.

I need a drink.

[YukonJack_AK]

Originally Posted by Oneshot/Onekill

War is maddness. Started more often than not by a mad person or person's. It's a controlled chaos, in which the end objective is the extermination of human life. The taking of one thing or many things that don't belong to you and using them to you'r own ends. Wars are what happens when we hate out of ignorance, fear what we do not understand, and lust for what we do not possess.

I have been. I have seen. I have committed.

I have to look at myself in the mirror everyday for the rest of my life...
...I need a drink.

As a fellow x-serviceman who saw 4 combat tours... I whole-heartedly agree with OS/OK's sentiments! You sir, Have a beer on me next time you're in AK!

On the other hand though, if it weren't for games like SH3/4, Call of Duty, etc, I would never have the opportunity to experience and appreciate the greatest struggles of those warriors who came before me(though a slightly altered and not real experiance) no matter the side on which they fought.

Back on topic though - there are some GREAT non-fiction books available about the UBoat war if anyone is looking for more reading:

U-Boat War Patrol: The Hidden Photographic Diary of U-564 (One of my favorites!)
Wolf-Pack: The Story of the U-Boat in WWII
U-Boat Crews - 1914-1945
U-Boote: The History of the Kriegsmarine U-Boats 1935-45

BTW - If anybody is interested I do have 16 different refernce & non-fiction books pertaining to the U-Boats/Battle of the Atlantic in PDF format... I'd be more than happy to share them with my fellow Kaleuns!

[Shado]

I would enjoy reading what you have to share. How big are the pdf files? Black May was a good book about the tail end of the U-Boat time in the Atlantic. I think it was very good.

[Elektranaut]

I read Iron Coffins last year when on holiday.It is simply unput downable and easily one of the best books I have ever read.What happened to the author after the fighting stopped is astonishing.