The stimulus bill, and how the 3rd and 4th most powerful people in the world act

[AVGWarhawk]

There is hope:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/firs...ness-doctrine/

[GoldenRivet]

[quote=Fr8monkey][quote=GoldenRivet]

thats right.

Originally Posted by they want to take the money away from those who have earned it and give it freely to those who have not.

And Wall Street and the Big 3 shoud keep their private jets and multi million dollar bonuses (gained from our tax money) for their failure? I agree with you!!!

nice way to change my words around

where do you think those tax dollars come from???

sure big corporations, but taxpayers like you and I too.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Fr8monkey

Jack Cafferty is another right wing whiner that is crying in his scotch becaues the Obstructionist (Republican) party lost the election. I say try him as a terrorist for that last comment.... Sounds like he wants the President dead.

How stupid. If that comment amounts to terrorism against a POTUS, most liberals should be locked away in Gitmo for the vile things they said about the last administration. This comment is nothing in comparison. Nor does he mean what you imply he means.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Fr8monkey

'its just another "us vs. them" mentality... and my friends nothing is more dangerous in a bipartisan democracy than to host the "us vs. them" attitude.'

How bipartisian was the republican senate? Recall the term 'up or down vote'? The Repub leaders wouldn't even let the Dems. hold meetings for gods sake.... atleast Obama met with the leadership of the opposing party. Did Bush? No.

How about atleast 15 Repubs. were going to vote for the bill untill the leadership threatened them.

more us vs them BS like i mentioned.

Fr8Monkey... open your eyes bro... my post accused NO PARTICULAR PARTY

it accused BOTH

bipartisanship in America can best be described as

tits up... pushing daisys... dead... it ceases to be...

bipartisanship is no more

and BOTH parties and all of those folks blindly loyal to their parties are to blame.

[Fr8monkey]

Rivet, Sorry. Wasn't digging on you... just using the 'bipartisan' as a point I always get from the right leaners I talk to.

Truce?

BTW, Google is your friend http://opportunitiesaplenty.com/Debt...onal_debt.html

Let's see... Getting loans from china at the expense of national soverinty (Bush) or Putting money into schools, infrastructure, job placement, etc.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090214/..._who_gets_what .

I'll go with option #2

@ Warhawk... Quoting Fox "news" is just proving how you reall lean.

[Dan D]

Originally Posted by August

It took me a while to find where i said that! I'm sorry to say that it's a joke Dan.

You can get your personal stimulus earmark as well:

http://www.reason.com/stimulus/request.php

Oh; I see. It was a joke. :-)
Well, let's hope, this remains as a joke.
What I find a bit worrysome, is that you hear a lot about stimulus plans which is fine by me in general, but rarely about the pay back thing. This is not wise on the political side, I think. They have to sell their shice to the voters. May be, they should point out more, that nothing is for free and that loans are to be repaid even when it is the automobile industry, banks etc. The man on the street has always been taught the hard lesson: When it starts to rain, the bank takes away your umbrella.
"Bail out plan".

[AVGWarhawk]

@ Warhawk... Quoting Fox "news" is just proving how you reall lean.

Just as any other news stations. So bro, I do not get shivers up my leg when I see Barry O. I do not shed a tear listening to his speeches. I do not feel all warm and fuzzy inside watching a rockstar president. But hey, that is just me. I do not lean to the right. I'm standing in it.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Fr8monkey

Rivet, Sorry. Wasn't digging on you... just using the 'bipartisan' as a point I always get from the right leaners I talk to.

Truce?

BTW, Google is your friend http://opportunitiesaplenty.com/Debt...onal_debt.html

Let's see... Getting loans from china at the expense of national soverinty (Bush) or Putting money into schools, infrastructure, job placement, etc.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090214/..._who_gets_what .

I'll go with option #2

@ Warhawk... Quoting Fox "news" is just proving how you reall lean.

truce

first off no matter how heated things might get discussion wise... we are friends here.

second... Obviously the choice would be #2 (reinvest in america), but myself and so many other people are so jaded in our political system that its a matter of seeing is believing. When you take almost 10% of the ENTIRE WORLD's GDP and dump it into big businesses in america you are only setting the next generation up for an absolute nightmare!

in the mean time, i see tax money that I paid-in going into the pockets of big businesses - many of which don't deserve to be in business any longer - and that cash is also funding America's turn toward socialism.

I believe that you are who you make yourself into... and i HATE these worth-nothing lay-abouts who collect MY tax dollars to sit at home and get drunk all day. as far as im concerned they need to get off their asses and go to work somewhere - anywhere.

Home of the free
Land of the handouts

thats what we have become.

[surf_ten]

We really need a legimate 3rd party in the US. The Left vs Right debates do nothing but further the divisions among us. I would classify most Americans as moderates who are sandwich between the two extremes.

As a middle class person, I willing to pay my fair share as long as our government spends my contribution in a responsible manner. I feel the American government is failing in it's constitutional duty of providing representation of the average citizen. Each party is guilty of fiscal irresponsiblity. The Dems are the tax and spend party but the Repubs are no better as the debt and spend party. I am tired of keeping a balance budget for my household and watch my representatives piss away money of the taxpayers.

I think the Obama's/Dems 'stimulus' bill is nothing short of gross financial irresponsibility. I can't see how crawling further into debt can relieve a crisis that was caused by banks despensing out bad loans (debt) like pez candies. However,
if Obama/Dem's stimulus package was meant to be truely benefical then I would think that the bulk of the money would be used to rebuild our nation's factories/manfacturing infrastructure instead of setting up bribes for future votes.

I personally believe lowering taxes seem more of logical course of action in preventing deflation. Giving people back their money in hopes that they spend it and put it back into the economy.

I really want my representatives to practice fiscal responsibility. Is that too much to ask for?

[August]

Originally Posted by surf_ten

We really need a legimate 3rd party in the US. The Left vs Right debates do nothing but further the divisions among us. I would classify most Americans as moderates who are sandwich between the two extremes.

I don't see where a third party would do anything except make a voters decision go from picking which half of his rights he wants to jeopardize to which 2/3rds. What you call the middle would rapidly become the third point in an equal triangle.

[surf_ten]

Originally Posted by August

I don't see where a third party would do anything except make a voters decision go from picking which half of his rights he wants to jeopardize to which 2/3rds. What you call the middle would rapidly become the third point in an equal triangle.

You might be right, but I for one am not happy with the current two party system as it exists today. Many of my coworkers and friends are starting to have the same opinion.

[vtccgolf]

Wait a minute...I just thought for a second I got caught in the crossfire between the Flying Dutchman and the IJN Yamato (Silent Hunter 4).

Wow...now I like the discussion going on this thread! I just joined up with the forum today, and I like what I am seeing. People actually talking about the issues! I just thought all Americans had rolled over and played "I don't care about politics." I guess the general concensus is that our government is a train wreck that keeps on giving, particularly to those that made poor decisions. I guess its a bad thing I can still make my mortgage payment.

Ok, all Neal Boortz / Glenn Beck sarcasm aside, I am glad to see this going on. I am also glad to see that most people are starting to look for new solutions to the huge mess we have in DC. The blame for this is on everyone...right down to the American people that elected these clowns. In a Republic (which is what we are despite what Woodrow Wilson started), the decisions are made by our elected officials, and it is up to us to make sure that they carry out our will. Now, how many people do we all know that couldn't tell you who their elected officials are? Yeah, I rest my case. Everyday I meet people that simply confound me on how they even know how to breathe, much less try to debate the merits of anything going on in Congress these days. The level of understanding among the average American on our nation's history, government, or our Constitution makes me sick.

I don't have an fancy studies to back that up, but the simple fact that our country is falling apart and "We the People" watch it all happen on our news channel of choice should say it all. I hope I don't step on anyone's toes, but America needs to wake up now and about face. Anyone that even tries to justify this "crapulus" that got shoved down our throats...got to pass it or the world will fall apart...needs to ask themselves one thing. Do you know exactly what got passed? No one in Congress read the whole thing, and I would have tried had someone kept their word on posting the bill. Funny, why did Obama wait to sign it on Tuesday? I am sure something this "urgent" could interupt Valentine's Day. Yeah...we just sold our great-grandchildren up the river. And it's about time the American people say something about that.

@ surf_ten: Want a third option...check out the Libertarians. I will proudly say that I am one thanks to Neal Boortz. I don't want to go on about it, but if you or anyone wants to know more, read his book "Somebody's Gotta Say it!" It explains Libertarians pretty well. They are also the big FairTax supporters. Feel free to PM me if you want to know more.

@Fr8monkey: I appreciate you willingness to stand up for your beliefs. Do me a favor and remind Obama of all the promises he made that he CAN'T live up too. It is sad when Obama has to pick lobbyists for his Administration. Why? Because that the only way DC can work. Lovely system we have allowed to be created. I think it's time Maryland got is land back. And the states need to take back this Union.

About basic economics...what exactly should we have learned? About the "invisible hand," or about the Keynesians belief that government spending will save us? How about the Laffer curve? This field, like any other, has two sides to the story. Both can be right, and both can be wrong. To be informed, you have to know both sides to make your own call. And no, most Americans never have taken an economics course. They couldn't tell you a "profit margin" from their elected officials. It is optional, like how American history and government are becoming.

Based on your reasoning concerning economics, you may want to check this link our and tell these guys they need to take a basic economics course too:

http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus...o_stimulus.pdf

Keep standing up for what you believe in...but make damn sure you know what that is. I have friends that work on the Hill in various capacities, and not one of them would solely trust anything out of a politician's mouth.

@ Everyone else: Thanks for the warm welcome, and I wanted to leave you with the following thoughts. If you truly want to know our Republic, you must know our founding fathers (not what some Justice or politician tells you).

On your tax dollars hard at work:

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson

Another thought on this stimulus:

"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world." - Thomas Jefferson

A word of caution about our government caring:

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

The difference between democracy and liberty:

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Ben Franklin

About being self-sufficient:

"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself." - Ben Franklin

About being prepared:

"If we are wise, let us prepare for the worst." - George Washington

And finally, about paying taxes:

“Make no mistake, tax cheaters cheat us all, and the IRS should enforce our laws to the letter. ” (Congressional Record, May 7, 1998, p. S4507, Senator Tom Daschle (D-SD))

OK...that last quote isn't a founding father, but, with all this talk of paying taxes, I just wanted you to know that your leaders are looking out for the cheats. And Tom, if you accidently thought that was a gift, please refer to IRS Publication 950 "Introduction to Estate and Gift Taxes." Yeap, you guys even tax gifts and dead people! But, you knew that...right?

Glad to be part of the family!

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by vtccgolf

The difference between democracy and liberty:

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Ben Franklin

About being self-sufficient:

"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself." - Ben Franklin

EXACTLY

[vtccgolf]

There is a small amount of hope! This says it all! Check out this link:



Maybe, just maybe...America will wake up.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by vtccgolf

There is a small amount of hope! This says it all! Check out this link:



Maybe, just maybe...America will wake up.

Already posted in another thread.

good find though.

and about America waking up... there is hope, but i doubt it, America is a heavy sleeper