A German military rank question.

FIREWALL · 02-09-09, 06:49 PM

To all my knowledgeable members.

Does a Colonel in the S.S. rank higher than a Colonel in the regular German army ?

How about Gestapo ?

Depending on answer I may have another question.

Morts · 02-09-09, 06:51 PM

great, my book about SS is at another house

it has a comparison of SS and regular german ranks

Skybird · 02-09-09, 07:05 PM

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS#Dienstgrade

At the bottom. Look for "Oberst", that usually equals a Colonel. As you see, they had no "Colonels" in the Waffen-SS, nor did the SS use the same ranks like the Wehrmacht. A Wehrmacht-Colonel would be an Oberst, his SS-pendant would be an SS-Standartenführer.

note the article says that different to the Wehrmacht, where higher ranks had to be earned by accoprding service, promotions and ranks in the SS not nessecarily were expression of proven competence based on past performance.

BTW, functionaries of the Nsdap appearing in their typical light-brown opera uniforms with their many toy medals in public, often were derogatorily nicknamed "Goldfasan" by the ordinary people, that means "golden pheasant".

FIREWALL · 02-09-09, 07:09 PM

Thx Morts and Skybird

Skybird I edited my post if you could look at it and give me a fast answer it would be appreciated.

Which of the two would make a regular army colonal shake in his boots ?

Skybird · 02-09-09, 07:16 PM

Don't get your question. What do you mean?

FIREWALL · 02-09-09, 07:46 PM

Who of the three is the most powerful at the rank of Colonel ?

AND the other two would fear.

Kongo Otto · 02-09-09, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Who of the three is the most powerful at the rank of Colonel ?

AND the other two would fear.

Nobody would fear the Gestapo Guy because the Gestapo, couldnt do anything against active Service Personal.
Those Gestapo Crooks, weren´t feared by the Army Members,but by the German Civilians.
There is also no Difference in Power between a Waffen-SS and a Wehrmacht Officer.
There were Wehrmacht Officers commanding Units including Waffen-SS and vice versa.
As an Example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hausser

A Very Super Market · 02-09-09, 09:16 PM

Unless you were wearing a kippah, the gestapo can't touch active personnel

FIREWALL · 02-09-09, 09:22 PM

Who was head of the Gestapo ?

And thx to all that have responded so far.

breadcatcher101 · 02-09-09, 09:51 PM

Heinrich Muller was the boss, kinda a German version of J. Edgar Hoover--but much worse! Many thought Himmler was, but no.

Chad · 02-09-09, 10:56 PM

If your trying to throw me out of power, I'll have you shot..

Just kidding, now i know where i stand

FIREWALL · 02-09-09, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad

If your trying to throw me out of power, I'll have you shot..

Just kidding, now i know where i stand

No,

I know where I stand

A Very Super Market · 02-09-09, 11:43 PM

YOU MEAN YOU KNOW YOU'RE A WEREWOLF WITH THIS ATTEMPT TO BE NONCHALANT

FIREWALL · 02-10-09, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Very Super Market

YOU MEAN YOU KNOW YOU'RE A WEREWOLF WITH THIS ATTEMPT TO BE NONCHALANT

No , In the GAME I may be more DEADLY as a human if my real identity is revealed.

As Neal said ... Surprises and Twists in the game.

AntEater · 02-10-09, 05:35 AM

No regular army officer had anything to fear from SS people until 20th July of 1944.
As a reaction to the coup attempt, Hitler pretty much copied stalin's system.

US Nazi films often mix a lot of things. The SS was no KGB.
The Gestapo was, weird as it sounds, Police. It had no jurisdiction over the military.
Back then, the military had its own jurisdiction with its own criminal code.
Gestapo was responsible for prosecuting political dissenters among the civilian population.
Its a safe bet that before 1944, no military officer was ever arrested by Gestapo.
After that, a lot were.
The Police was subordinate to SS, this resulted in a lot of mixing like police officers taking part in attrocities and serving in Waffen-SS field divisions.
An old police officer I know had his police basic training in the 1950s and it was basically an antipartisan course by former Waffen-SS people.
To add to the confusion, the military police was not military, but normal police, but NOT subordinate to the SS.
Unlike today's Feldjäger (which are officially soldiers) Feldgendarmerie officers were seconded to the military, but remained police. The SS couldn't give them any orders.

The Waffen-SS itself was a mixed lot. You basically had three roots.
The pre-war Verfügungstruppe, which was basically a military experiment to raise a model force, done by former military officers scorned for their radical ideas (Hausser and Steiner). They wanted to create a ideal military force by a radical break from traditional prussian military traditions, instead drawing on trench comradeship, revolutionary fervor and freikorps spirit, using small unit infiltration tactics.
A sign of that was that in the Waffen-SS, it was not "Herr Scharführer" (or other rank) but simply "Scharführer" without the Herr. There was to be no class distinction between officers and enlisted.
This does not mean the Verfügungstruppe people were not ardent nazis, they just took the revolutionary side of the nazi party more seriously than the rest.
The second root was Hitler's personal bodyguard.
The third were the "Totenkopf" standards, the base units for the concentration camp guards.
These three existed as seperate entities before the war, but blurred together as the war progressed.

Generally, the SS was relatively unimportant in military matters until about 1942.
Before that, the SS was the police, so it had importance for civilians, and it also ran its parallel empire in Czechoslovakia, but the first place in the state was still occupied by the military.

02-09-09, 06:49 PM	#1
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	A German military rank question. To all my knowledgeable members. Does a Colonel in the S.S. rank higher than a Colonel in the regular German army ? How about Gestapo ? Depending on answer I may have another question. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ??? Last edited by FIREWALL; 02-09-09 at 07:05 PM.

02-09-09, 07:05 PM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,680 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS#Dienstgrade At the bottom. Look for "Oberst", that usually equals a Colonel. As you see, they had no "Colonels" in the Waffen-SS, nor did the SS use the same ranks like the Wehrmacht. A Wehrmacht-Colonel would be an Oberst, his SS-pendant would be an SS-Standartenführer. note the article says that different to the Wehrmacht, where higher ranks had to be earned by accoprding service, promotions and ranks in the SS not nessecarily were expression of proven competence based on past performance. BTW, functionaries of the Nsdap appearing in their typical light-brown opera uniforms with their many toy medals in public, often were derogatorily nicknamed "Goldfasan" by the ordinary people, that means "golden pheasant". __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-09-09, 07:09 PM	#4
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Thx Morts and Skybird Skybird I edited my post if you could look at it and give me a fast answer it would be appreciated. Which of the two would make a regular army colonal shake in his boots ? __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

02-09-09, 07:16 PM	#5
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,680 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Don't get your question. What do you mean? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-09-09, 07:46 PM	#6
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Who of the three is the most powerful at the rank of Colonel ? AND the other two would fear. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

02-09-09, 06:51 PM	#2
Morts Admiral Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,395 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	great, my book about SS is at another house it has a comparison of SS and regular german ranks

02-09-09, 09:16 PM	#8
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Unless you were wearing a kippah, the gestapo can't touch active personnel __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!

02-09-09, 09:22 PM	#9
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Who was head of the Gestapo ? And thx to all that have responded so far. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

02-09-09, 09:51 PM	#10
breadcatcher101 Captain Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 546 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Heinrich Muller was the boss, kinda a German version of J. Edgar Hoover--but much worse! Many thought Himmler was, but no.

02-09-09, 10:56 PM	#11
Chad ACE Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,274 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	If your trying to throw me out of power, I'll have you shot.. Just kidding, now i know where i stand __________________

02-09-09, 11:43 PM	#13
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	YOU MEAN YOU KNOW YOU'RE A WEREWOLF WITH THIS ATTEMPT TO BE NONCHALANT __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!

02-10-09, 05:35 AM	#15
AntEater Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 936 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	No regular army officer had anything to fear from SS people until 20th July of 1944. As a reaction to the coup attempt, Hitler pretty much copied stalin's system. US Nazi films often mix a lot of things. The SS was no KGB. The Gestapo was, weird as it sounds, Police. It had no jurisdiction over the military. Back then, the military had its own jurisdiction with its own criminal code. Gestapo was responsible for prosecuting political dissenters among the civilian population. Its a safe bet that before 1944, no military officer was ever arrested by Gestapo. After that, a lot were. The Police was subordinate to SS, this resulted in a lot of mixing like police officers taking part in attrocities and serving in Waffen-SS field divisions. An old police officer I know had his police basic training in the 1950s and it was basically an antipartisan course by former Waffen-SS people. To add to the confusion, the military police was not military, but normal police, but NOT subordinate to the SS. Unlike today's Feldjäger (which are officially soldiers) Feldgendarmerie officers were seconded to the military, but remained police. The SS couldn't give them any orders. The Waffen-SS itself was a mixed lot. You basically had three roots. The pre-war Verfügungstruppe, which was basically a military experiment to raise a model force, done by former military officers scorned for their radical ideas (Hausser and Steiner). They wanted to create a ideal military force by a radical break from traditional prussian military traditions, instead drawing on trench comradeship, revolutionary fervor and freikorps spirit, using small unit infiltration tactics. A sign of that was that in the Waffen-SS, it was not "Herr Scharführer" (or other rank) but simply "Scharführer" without the Herr. There was to be no class distinction between officers and enlisted. This does not mean the Verfügungstruppe people were not ardent nazis, they just took the revolutionary side of the nazi party more seriously than the rest. The second root was Hitler's personal bodyguard. The third were the "Totenkopf" standards, the base units for the concentration camp guards. These three existed as seperate entities before the war, but blurred together as the war progressed. Generally, the SS was relatively unimportant in military matters until about 1942. Before that, the SS was the police, so it had importance for civilians, and it also ran its parallel empire in Czechoslovakia, but the first place in the state was still occupied by the military. __________________