Obama calls for halt to Gitmo prosecutions.

Biggles · 01-21-09, 12:44 PM

What the title says:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS...tml#cnnSTCText

Any thoughts?

Konovalov · 01-21-09, 12:50 PM

It's an exercise in buying time in order to figure out exactly what to do with the mess that is Guantanamo Bay.

Skybird · 01-21-09, 12:59 PM

He said he would close it, so no surprise. A legal vacuum, a spot of shame on the American flag. Time to clean it.

On the question of who should take those prisoners who could not be sent back to their countries without needing to fear torture and mistreatement, there are two scenarios.

Either the prisoner in question is innocent and harmless (and we have had quiet some of these now), then nothing speaks against the US taking him in, if he is innocent or harmless, if he wants that. After all, america has a debt to such a person.

If he is considered dangerous, again the US should take him, for I see no reason why it should be acceptable for protesting, opposing european states to take such a person and take the risk, and the US getting rid of the risk and problem for free.

I don't buy this negotiating of what countries take what prisoners. The US started it, so they have to take them, period. Only those persons who are innocent and have the wish not to stay in the country whose hijacked "hospitality" they have enjoyed over the past years, should be given the choice to go to a european country, if they wish that. Problematic cases America has to find a solution for by itself, taking the efforts and risks itself, too, becasue it is responsible for the status quo and has created the mess. I do not accept prisoners with risks being exported from America to Europe. Also, after up to seven years without legal proceedings, such people either are brought to court right now on the basis of valid civil law codes, or released. There was opportunity and time enough to charge and sentence (or release) them.

Biggles · 01-21-09, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

He said he would close it, so no surprise.

True that, but this soon? I didn't expect anything from him for the next week or so. At least nothing of such an interest. (for me).

Onkel Neal · 01-21-09, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggles

What the title says:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS...tml#cnnSTCText

Any thoughts?

Send them to Germany. First class, of course.

Biggles · 01-21-09, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggles

What the title says:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS...tml#cnnSTCText

Any thoughts?

Send them to Germany. First class, of course.

Or, uh, prisons on american soil?

Enigma · 01-21-09, 02:24 PM

As far as I know, this is a fairly standard thing to do during a transition. ....

breadcatcher101 · 01-21-09, 02:29 PM

Send them to Iraq and let them try them in their courts.

SteamWake · 01-21-09, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

He said he would close it, so no surprise.

No supprise either that he has also backed off this statement.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...ct_barack.html

Skybird · 01-21-09, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggles

What the title says:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS...tml#cnnSTCText

Any thoughts?

Send them to Germany. First class, of course.

Keep them yourself. You messed it up, you clean it, you pay for it. And you bring your legal issues back in order. Why should Germany give you the cheap exit ticket?

nikimcbee · 01-21-09, 03:16 PM

Outsource the work to Russia.

They are skilled in dealing with these kind of political issues. When these guys get off the plane in Moscow, they'll all be wearing "Vote Kasparov, time for change" t-shirts.

Problem solved in 10 minutes. Just think, they won't even need to go through customs.

baggygreen · 01-21-09, 04:13 PM

Here's what irks me about this little situation - how could people detained for fighting the great satan et al possibly be at risk when they return home? at risk from whom? the people doing the torturing and killing (with a rare exception here and there) are their own mates...

Skybird · 01-21-09, 04:29 PM

Consider a prisoner to be a terrorist indeed. Imagine the fairy queen said so. Imagine him to be Saudi. Imagine to hand him over to the Saudis.

Not that I care for him, in this example. Just answering your question. Saudi terrorism and Saudi terrorism - are not the same. Saudis pay for Saudi terrorism only if it is not directed against their own Saudi government, but infidel nations. Else they execute such terrorists. But different to Gitmo, they neither need seven years to find out about a prisoner, nor does it take them so long to bring him to court and get him sentenced.

Onkel Neal · 01-21-09, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Outsource the work to Russia.

They are skilled in dealing with these kind of political issues. When these guys get off the plane in Moscow, they'll all be wearing "Vote Kasparov, time for change" t-shirts.

Problem solved in 10 minutes. Just think, they won't even need to go through customs.

haha, that works on so many levels! :rotfl:

Stealth Hunter · 01-21-09, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

He said he would close it, so no surprise.

No supprise either that he has also backed off this statement.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...ct_barack.html

I didn't see anything in there that said he wouldn't close the facility...:hmm:

01-21-09, 12:44 PM	#1
Biggles Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sweden (I'm not a Viking...) Posts: 3,529 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Obama calls for halt to Gitmo prosecutions. What the title says: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS...tml#cnnSTCText Any thoughts? __________________

01-21-09, 12:50 PM	#2
Konovalov Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: High Wycombe, Bucks, UK Posts: 2,811 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	It's an exercise in buying time in order to figure out exactly what to do with the mess that is Guantanamo Bay. __________________ "In a Christian context, sexuality is traditionally seen as a consequence of the Fall, but for Muslims, it is an anticipation of paradise. So I can say, I think, that I was validly converted to Islam by a teenage French Jewish nudist." Sheikh Abdul-Hakim Murad (Timothy Winter)

01-21-09, 12:59 PM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,615 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	He said he would close it, so no surprise. A legal vacuum, a spot of shame on the American flag. Time to clean it. On the question of who should take those prisoners who could not be sent back to their countries without needing to fear torture and mistreatement, there are two scenarios. Either the prisoner in question is innocent and harmless (and we have had quiet some of these now), then nothing speaks against the US taking him in, if he is innocent or harmless, if he wants that. After all, america has a debt to such a person. If he is considered dangerous, again the US should take him, for I see no reason why it should be acceptable for protesting, opposing european states to take such a person and take the risk, and the US getting rid of the risk and problem for free. I don't buy this negotiating of what countries take what prisoners. The US started it, so they have to take them, period. Only those persons who are innocent and have the wish not to stay in the country whose hijacked "hospitality" they have enjoyed over the past years, should be given the choice to go to a european country, if they wish that. Problematic cases America has to find a solution for by itself, taking the efforts and risks itself, too, becasue it is responsible for the status quo and has created the mess. I do not accept prisoners with risks being exported from America to Europe. Also, after up to seven years without legal proceedings, such people either are brought to court right now on the basis of valid civil law codes, or released. There was opportunity and time enough to charge and sentence (or release) them. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-21-09, 02:24 PM	#7
Enigma The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: At comms depth, obviously. Posts: 1,476 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	As far as I know, this is a fairly standard thing to do during a transition. .... __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

01-21-09, 03:16 PM	#11
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Outsource the work to Russia. They are skilled in dealing with these kind of political issues. When these guys get off the plane in Moscow, they'll all be wearing "Vote Kasparov, time for change" t-shirts. Problem solved in 10 minutes. Just think, they won't even need to go through customs. __________________

01-21-09, 02:29 PM	#8
breadcatcher101 Captain Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 546 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Send them to Iraq and let them try them in their courts.

01-21-09, 04:13 PM	#12
baggygreen Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canberra, ACT, Down Under (really On Top) Posts: 1,880 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Here's what irks me about this little situation - how could people detained for fighting the great satan et al possibly be at risk when they return home? at risk from whom? the people doing the torturing and killing (with a rare exception here and there) are their own mates...

01-21-09, 04:29 PM	#13
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,615 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Consider a prisoner to be a terrorist indeed. Imagine the fairy queen said so. Imagine him to be Saudi. Imagine to hand him over to the Saudis. Not that I care for him, in this example. Just answering your question. Saudi terrorism and Saudi terrorism - are not the same. Saudis pay for Saudi terrorism only if it is not directed against their own Saudi government, but infidel nations. Else they execute such terrorists. But different to Gitmo, they neither need seven years to find out about a prisoner, nor does it take them so long to bring him to court and get him sentenced. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 01-21-09 at 05:08 PM.