Geert Wilders getting charged for "hate-speech"

[Skybird]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7842344.stm

I use to not start threads on religion, and use to no longer start threads on Islam since a long time now, but this is an exception, and it makes me furious. Wilders, whose Fitna-movie last year caused an uproar in advance and then showed to be relatively unspectacular and not overly original or new, is being charged for hate-speech. It is not the first time such charges are being started against critics of Islam in Holland. It nevertheless is of interest, because if you cannot criticise a given religion anymore without the relgion in question being able to shut your mouth by calling any critical attidue to itself a hate-crime, then not only freedom of opinion and freedom of speech is under attack, but the basic secular order of western states itself.

It also illustrates why I am totally and competely against the anti-discrimination laws in their current form implemented by the EU, which allow the same mechanism to be used to let people have their will when they demand others to comply with their demands. If you refuse to comply with such demands, for example giving an appartement that is for rent to somebody who wants it, this somebody can charge you over you discriminating him.

In European appeasement policy towards Islam, it gets illustrated that europe knows no other advise in the face of it than to fall back and deny itself, it's historically grown identity, it'S cultural values, the legal rights our ancestors have fought and suffered for so bitterly for so long ages. It illustrates that the lessons of the first half of the last century have been already forgotten, and that basic human rights and freedoms as well as cultural identity of european people in their European home countries now are worthless objects of negotiations with an aggresively expanding totalitarian ideology of conquest, if that helps cowardice to keep in power and remain cowardish, and to evade taking a stand and defend it and fighting a conflict of self-defence about it.

Thank God Hitler already took place 70 years ago. With the European people and politicians of today, the Nazis would have a much easier match, being almost invincible in the face of such weakness, cowardice that is drunk of itself and declares itself to be "tolerance", and inability to defend itself - even unwillingness to to defend itself.

On the other hand, if the one evil got overcome, just so that our people today do submit to another evil almost without any resistance at all, and all what has been gained by earlier generations in good and worthy qualities is beign given up headlessly, carelessly, for nobody can imagine anymore or knows by experience what it means to live without such freedoms anymore - what good has it all been for, then?

I am not sure and thus may recall it wrong, but I seem to remember that the Dutch already had laws forbidding any criticism of religion before the EU initiave came with it's anti-discrimination laws - that critics today already attack for not leading far enough: they want to turn them to such ways that the burden of evidence is being shifted completely to the accused, so that anybody being accused of discrimination is considered as guilty as long as his inocence is not proven, which is a complete reversing of a basic juristical principle of western law traditions. They want a new cultural climate of unlimited opportunities for diffamation. Political ideology is running amok here - and any reason and accountability already has been kicked out of the window.

This event in Holland is an alarm call - that most likely will go by unheard. It also is a great victory for Islam: European laws forbid resisting Islam and criticising it: things could not run any better for Islam.

An Islam critic gets accused of "hate-speech" for violating the wanted collective self-deception. At the same time Muslim posters in european streets calling for the death of Americans or critics of Islam, the destruction of European freedoms or the annihilation of Israel are protected and are acceptable, and hate-preachers in mosques and Muslim communities remain untouched.

One could only cry about how deep our fall is - and how unlimited our stupidity. But one thing is sure, if one sees it with honest eyes: we deserve what we sow.

[SteamWake]

Welcome to the PC world.

[longam]

I always like to reply in one sentence or less.

[Fish]

He compared mein kampf with the koran and Islam with naziisme.
Lets wait for the judge to decide.

[Rockstar]

whoever made that comparison isn't very far off the mark

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/2543


Hitler had his struggle, Islam has theirs. One calls it Mein Kampf the other jihad. I know they each have similar goals.

[Tchocky]

Stupid charge to make.
The guy himself comes across as the usual airhorn-type. Don't give him the free publicity of a trial. And a probable acquittal.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Fish

He compared mein kampf with the koran and Islam with naziisme.

So do I - on the basis of the obvious levels of aggressive expansionism, totalitarianism and superiority delusion to be found in both ideologies. And neither Wilders nor me are the first to point at these parallels. Let's charge me too, then!? Under the new EU laws, certainly.

Ah, I forgot, I already received death threats by letters some longer time ago, when I was enaged in a civil rights movement against a local mosque expansion. Maybe that rates as the same like "being charged" - for some stoneage apemen it surely does. It surely can't be a hate crime to issue death threats. Police back then told me if I press on with insisting on an investigation, I might get trouble with the BKA checking into my assumed anti-constitutional activities. Hallelujah.

P.S. I do not know Wilders any further than in context with that movie (which really was relatively lame, considering the fuss in advance around it). I do not judge or assess his other activities, since I do not know them.

[Sea Demon]

I guess in the near future, we may just get another wave of European migrants yearning to breathe free headed our way. That is if we can maintain our free Constitutional Republic that is....

[Hitman]

I wonder what would happen if someone in the Netherlands took certain quotes of the Bible and of the Quran and went with them to the courts to request a process for "promotion of hate and discrimination" :hmm: Using the very same yardstick applied to Mr. Wilders, I guess many "holy" books would get banned very quickly

[Rockstar]

... In effect, Wilders is being prosecuted for stating the obvious. It is telling that in deploring his comparison of Islamic extremism to Nazism, the court pointedly omits to mention that Wilders has produced ample evidence for the charge. In Fitna, his March 2008 film about Islamic radicalism, Wilders included images of Muslim demonstrators wielding placards declaring “God bless Hitler,” calling for “another Holocaust” and paying tribute to Adolf Hitler. In another scene from the film, a 3-year-old girl is seen reciting Koranic verses calling Jews “apes and swine.” When Wilders likens the Koran to Hitler’s Mein Kampf – yet another criminal offense, according to the Dutch court – it is this observable context that he has in mind.

But one need not take Wilders’s “biased” word for it. As even the most casual news reader would have noticed, pro-Nazi imagery and anti-Semitic incitement have become a staple of Muslim demonstrations across the world At a January 2001 rally for Hamas and Hezbollah in Amsterdam, Muslim protestors shouted what has become a familiar slogan in the Netherlands: “Hamas, Hamas, Joden aan het gas” (Hamas, Hamas, all Jews to the gas). In Copenhagen, Denmark, earlier this month, Muslim demonstrators’ chants of “Alla-hu Akbar!” were punctuated with “Heil Hilter!” salutes and calls for the deaths of Jews. Similar examples are legion. When a prominent Dutch lawyer praised the court’s decision this week as “a happy day for all followers of Islam who do not want to be tossed on the garbage dump of Nazism,” he missed the point entirely. No one has done more to make Wilders’s parallels between Nazism and Islam plausible than Muslims themselves.







Nevermind the signs they display and the words they speak they only want to move into your neigborhood and be friendly

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...8-20F42BCAD623

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/2543


.

[Skybird]

The charge is essentially that he has insulted Islam and Muslims, and engaged in hate speech. Hate speech, of course, is in the eye of the beholder, and hate speech laws are tools in the hands of the powerful that they can use to silence the powerless and crush dissent.

And make no mistake: even though the Muslims in the Netherlands and elsewhere in the West present themselves as embattled victims of racism and "Islamophobia," that is exactly what is going on here: this is just one part of the 57-government Organization of the Islamic Conference's efforts to silence speech that they deem critical of Islam -- including "defamation of Islam" that goes under the "pretext" of "freedom of expression, counter terrorism or national security."

If they succeed in doing this, we will be rendered mute, and thus defenseless, in the face of the advancing jihad and attempt to impose Sharia on the West -- in fact, one of the key elements of the laws for dhimmis is that they are never critical of Islam, Muhammad, or the Qur'an, so this initiative not only aids the advance of Sharia in the West, but is itself an element of that advance.

(...)

There will still be free speech in America in much the same way as Henry Ford used to say that you can have any color car you want, as long as it's black: free speech will still be a constitutional right, but "hate speech" will be specifically exempted from its protections, and "hate speech" will be defined to encompass speaking honestly about the actual texts and teachings of Islam that contain exhortations to violence and assertions of supremacism -- unless one is referencing such material approvingly as a believer.

http://frontpagemagazine.com/Article...9-D4611738D01B

This is 100% correct, if you know the basics of Islamic teaching and world views (every other udnerstanding of Islam is as much Islamic as is the blessing of cannons and guns by church priests "Christian" in the meaning of the Christ's teachings).

[Skybird]

"The truth is sometimes offensive, there's no doubt about that. But - that doesn't make it any less true. And the truth is that there are millions of people all over the Western world who are absolutely sick and tired of Islam. They are sick of hearing about it, and they are sick of having to make allowances for it that are not deserved. And they feel enough is enough.

And their voices will be heared.

The multicultural mafia can pretent it ain't so and they can pass all the laws they want, and continue to harass people and shut down internet connections and generally behave like the GeStaPo - but it ain't going to work. You can't change people's hearts by force. We are not going to respect Islam - until Islam starts to respect us. But then, if that ever happened, it wouldn't be Islam anymore.

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem."

Well said, brother!

[CaptainHaplo]

As amazing as it is - I am in full agreement with Skybird on this one.

[baggygreen]

I read an article in The Australian about this today - they lifted it from the WSJ.

I really can't figure out if the.. apathy towards Islam is because people truly believe those blokes calling death to america etc are only trying to get attention, or if they believe that by taking the moral high horse they hope to effect change amongst the more radical muslims.

Either way, They're wrong.

Acceptance is one thing, however that isn't what is happening, at least in equal measure. Tolerance is also being pushed by only one side. The end result is assimilation of the weak.

If they want to build more mosques, let them. But in return, let there be christian churches, and bhuddist temples built throughout muslim lands. If they wish to come to our western countries, let them. But if they complain because we dress according to our fashions, whilst remaining in theirs, we shall go to their lands and dress in our fashions, whilst complaining about theirs. If they're allowed to chant death to whoever, or make threats to kill, or to promote the gassing of jews (I was of the belief such comments are illegal... but appeasement takes precedence I suppose), why are we not allowed to draw cartoons of Muhammed etc? Free speech has to work both ways - but clearly up there in Europe, it doesn't.

It isn't a 2-way street up in Europe at the minute, its a one-way highway. At least down under we've got enough people awake to the stupidity of this strategy of appeasement that it'll never get as bad as it is up north..

I suggest reading this book by Rob Grant (sorry brag!! different genre). Laughable a few years back, it seems exactly where Europe is headed

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/g/...competence.htm

[Happy Times]

At the tipping point, majority will rise against this. Sooner the better because that will save lives. In Finland Islam will loose eventually, there is no question, hope the rest of Europe has some guts left.