Most "realistic" mod setup...

scott613 · 01-16-09, 10:48 AM

All,

Pretty new at SH4 - bought it a while ago - didn't load any mods and shelved it because I didn't think it was very realistic... Recently I have found all these great mods to help improve the original game...

I've tried a few - it seems to me that the "TriggerMaru" is one of the most realistic - although I'm sure I haven't tried them all...

Now I know everyone has different opinions - but - I don't know which mods are compatible and would offer an improvement to whichever "super mod" you install...

Can anyone offer some recommendations for sample setups - with the mods that play nicely together and actually improve whichever "super mod" they recommend ???

For example: If I use TriggerMaru" do I load PE4 and ROW with it ??? It seems tha TMO already improves both the sound and graphics - no ???

Any help appreciated....

Thanks,
Scott
ET1/SS
USS Flasher (SSN-613)
1985-1991

Rockin Robbins · 01-16-09, 12:52 PM

Scott, other than coincidence and where reality helps produce exciting and challenging gameplay, TMO is not about reality. The sub itself is pretty realistic. The environment is pretty realistic. But the enemy AI is nowhere near realistic. And that is because the prime directive of TMO is more challenging gameplay.

Japanese escorts can and will detect you from ranges that are impossible and will detect you with no problem while you are sitting doggo with your engines off. They will not ping you and they will not search for you. They charge at 30 knots, drop the charges directly on top of you and you are dead. If you hide below the thermal barrier, they will continue to be able to find and depth charge you without the use of active sonar. If you live it will be because you beat the enemy, not because you stuck it below the thermal barrier, hit silent running and ate lunch.

In TMO eyecandy and realism are only tools. Where they contribute to challenging and exciting gameplay they are used. If they do not, realism is ignored. TMO already contains some elements of PE. Installing PE or ROW with TMO will make bad changes to some gameplay aspects. My preference is to play TMO by itself and some submarine skins. It's the most fun you can have with SH4.

If you want realism, try Real Fleet Boat.

AVGWarhawk · 01-16-09, 01:42 PM

BTW, in all reality, you just need RFB and current patch. It has the enviro mod and a lot of other goodies. Add RSRD right behind it and your all set.

tater · 01-16-09, 02:25 PM

I've said this before WRT TM, and I'll say it here. While realism is not the purpose of TM, I actually feel it delivers realism.

"Realism" in a game like this requires the willful cooperation of the PLAYER. Any player willing to game/exploit the code to do something he KNOWS is unrealistic doesn't even have a right to comment on realism, IMO.

To the extent a mod changes player behavior, it can end up being realistic, even though the nuts and bolts are very specifically UNrealistic.

RL skippers were sometimes quite aggressive (Mush Morton, for example). They were NOT reckless, however. They thought out attacks. They fought the boat when they were under attack. If a mod like TMO has unrealistic sensor settings that require the player to temper their aggression with planning, and evasion, the end the result can none the less become quite realistic.

Note that while "more difficult," the players quickly learn how to fight their boat until it becomes second nature, at which point it is not a-historically dangerous.

And all this without said "realism" as the goal.

Another example. In RL, IJN DCs had a shallow maximum set-depth. The IJN did NOT aim their DCs at the target depth, they dropped patterns in depth, instead. If we could mod in proper IJN DCs going no deeper than ~60m (60m set, plus X% slop), then players would quickly learn they were invulnerable at 70m depth, and would never get killed, ever. In RL, you could not be that sure. From a mod perspective, If I could make realistic DCs, I might, but you know what, I'd slop up the depth enough—unrealistically—to keep the players honest.

scott613 · 01-16-09, 02:35 PM

Thanks guys - appreciate you taking the time to help a newb out... I had only briefly tried RFB - it didn't seem as if the graphics or sounds were as good... So I went back to TMO... I am more interested in realistic AI tactics and such - so I'll load it back up...

Anything to improve RFB look - sounds - and - feel ???

Thanks,
Scott
ET1/SS
USS Flasher (SSN-613)
1985-1991

01-16-09, 10:48 AM	#1
scott613 Mate Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 60 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Most "realistic" mod setup... All, Pretty new at SH4 - bought it a while ago - didn't load any mods and shelved it because I didn't think it was very realistic... Recently I have found all these great mods to help improve the original game... I've tried a few - it seems to me that the "TriggerMaru" is one of the most realistic - although I'm sure I haven't tried them all... Now I know everyone has different opinions - but - I don't know which mods are compatible and would offer an improvement to whichever "super mod" you install... Can anyone offer some recommendations for sample setups - with the mods that play nicely together and actually improve whichever "super mod" they recommend ??? For example: If I use TriggerMaru" do I load PE4 and ROW with it ??? It seems tha TMO already improves both the sound and graphics - no ??? Any help appreciated.... Thanks, Scott ET1/SS USS Flasher (SSN-613) 1985-1991

01-16-09, 12:52 PM	#2
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Scott, other than coincidence and where reality helps produce exciting and challenging gameplay, TMO is not about reality. The sub itself is pretty realistic. The environment is pretty realistic. But the enemy AI is nowhere near realistic. And that is because the prime directive of TMO is more challenging gameplay. Japanese escorts can and will detect you from ranges that are impossible and will detect you with no problem while you are sitting doggo with your engines off. They will not ping you and they will not search for you. They charge at 30 knots, drop the charges directly on top of you and you are dead. If you hide below the thermal barrier, they will continue to be able to find and depth charge you without the use of active sonar. If you live it will be because you beat the enemy, not because you stuck it below the thermal barrier, hit silent running and ate lunch. In TMO eyecandy and realism are only tools. Where they contribute to challenging and exciting gameplay they are used. If they do not, realism is ignored. TMO already contains some elements of PE. Installing PE or ROW with TMO will make bad changes to some gameplay aspects. My preference is to play TMO by itself and some submarine skins. It's the most fun you can have with SH4. If you want realism, try Real Fleet Boat. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

01-16-09, 01:42 PM	#3
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,280 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	BTW, in all reality, you just need RFB and current patch. It has the enviro mod and a lot of other goodies. Add RSRD right behind it and your all set. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

01-16-09, 02:25 PM	#4
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I've said this before WRT TM, and I'll say it here. While realism is not the purpose of TM, I actually feel it delivers realism. "Realism" in a game like this requires the willful cooperation of the PLAYER. Any player willing to game/exploit the code to do something he KNOWS is unrealistic doesn't even have a right to comment on realism, IMO. To the extent a mod changes player behavior, it can end up being realistic, even though the nuts and bolts are very specifically UNrealistic. RL skippers were sometimes quite aggressive (Mush Morton, for example). They were NOT reckless, however. They thought out attacks. They fought the boat when they were under attack. If a mod like TMO has unrealistic sensor settings that require the player to temper their aggression with planning, and evasion, the end the result can none the less become quite realistic. Note that while "more difficult," the players quickly learn how to fight their boat until it becomes second nature, at which point it is not a-historically dangerous. And all this without said "realism" as the goal. Another example. In RL, IJN DCs had a shallow maximum set-depth. The IJN did NOT aim their DCs at the target depth, they dropped patterns in depth, instead. If we could mod in proper IJN DCs going no deeper than ~60m (60m set, plus X% slop), then players would quickly learn they were invulnerable at 70m depth, and would never get killed, ever. In RL, you could not be that sure. From a mod perspective, If I could make realistic DCs, I might, but you know what, I'd slop up the depth enough—unrealistically—to keep the players honest.

01-16-09, 02:35 PM	#5
scott613 Mate Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 60 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Thanks guys - appreciate you taking the time to help a newb out... I had only briefly tried RFB - it didn't seem as if the graphics or sounds were as good... So I went back to TMO... I am more interested in realistic AI tactics and such - so I'll load it back up... Anything to improve RFB look - sounds - and - feel ??? Thanks, Scott ET1/SS USS Flasher (SSN-613) 1985-1991