President Zelensky

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Zelensky was pressed by Trump to publicly say that Biden's son Hunter Biden had some shady business in Ukraine, to denigrate Biden and so help Trump's election. Further above in this thread Gorpet again citing Trump's accusations that Biden's son had shady "deals" with ukrainian economy or such, all debunked, still echoed (like Hillary, eMails, wrecked election, only democrats doing shady stuff, deal with potentates, raped children, pizzagate, and so on)
At least i guess this is what he drones about, not sure.

When Zelenky did not follow Trump's "suggestions" in this infamous telephone call, as an answer he did not get as much economoc and military support as he had hoped.

I love it when people insist anything they disagree with is "debunked". It's laughable, especially when a MSM article brings up anything they don't want to be called out on, it's always "debunked" or "false claims".

Hillary: certainly did many of the things she has been accused of, most significantly, using the DNC to undermine her opponent's (Sanders) nomination run. Have you read any of Podesta's emails from Wikileaks? Do you recall the CNN talking head Brazile who leaked the debate questions to Hillary's campaign (which they used without reporting them, if I'm not mistaken)? Clinton and the DNC are as crooked as a snake, it's been evident for years. Wikileaks exposed this clearly.

Emails: Hillary directed the use of an unsecure private server for her Sec of State emails, then she tried to cover it up, directed her staff to remove evidence from the servers, lied about and tried to play dumb. Sure, you can gloss over that if you like, but it is a big deal.

I totally agree with you about Trump's stupid pressuring Zelensky about Hunter Biden's corruption, that was definitely bad, even impeachable. What Trump should have done is directed the Dept of Justice or FBI to investigate that. His stupid move does not diminish the corruption from the Bidens, no sir.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Possible that Trump would have aligned with Putin in this war. He admires Putin, wants to be like him, wants to have his totalitarian powers, wants to be seen as a tough and mighty buddy kicking doors in and slamming fists on tables while telling sexist jokes . What a big mucho macho ma-ma-ma-manly superman, hohoho!



The sad carricature of a human being. Sadder a sight only those are who even now still believe him.

I know that Trump does like to posture as the tough, no-nonsense, action-driven macho guy, but despite that, despite his bluster and rhetoric, I don't think he's as reckless as he puts on, or as he is painted. His 4 years in office probably had the fewest military adventures and actions than any president in a long time.

[Threadfin]

Trump will soon replace Kevin Bacon as the center of the universe, and for centuries everything bad that happens will be connected back to him.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I know that Trump does like to posture as the tough, no-nonsense, action-driven macho guy, but despite that, despite his bluster and rhetoric, I don't think he's as reckless as he puts on, or as he is painted. His 4 years in office probably had the fewest military adventures and actions than any president in a long time.

And scruple sor reason have nothikng to do with that, Neal. He is a coward. Thats simple. He has nos cruples to do underhanded deals, though, and a cionsistent opportunist. And that is why it is a blessing that he is not the one in the voal officve right now. Like Putin, he has a strongly psychopathic, antisocial personality structure. But he lacks the ice-cold calculating brains that Putin once had.Both men are extrneely brutal, but the means by which they project that brutality and aggressiveness are quite different. Both men show strongn signs of paranoia, since as long a sI can remember them, and obviously also extremely strong egocentrism, but team Trump scores heavily in additional narcissism.



I am no fan of Biden, and yes, obviously his age is clearly to be seen, and yet: you underestimate the value of having him in thsi crisis, not Trump. Biden is a brainc hild of the cold war, he knwos that gam,e, how it wa splayed, he knwos the rules of it, he was part of it. He is modest. And nevertehless he also is "America first", something that many in Europoe overlook and maybe even Americans. Not evertyhing he says and done is sleepy or slow, but simply: subtle and clever.



I non-hot-head is needed on our side. Because one thing I am 100% certain of now: Putin will not shy away from using nuclear weapons in the Ukraine if he thinks that is what is needed to rescue himself. I hate to sa yit, but nuclear wepaons use in the Ukraine to me is now a realistic scenario. We must not want to have Trump accidentally pushing him over that red line, or even encouraging him with subtle "signals".



We can only hope that the Russian intel or military will put bullets in Putin's head if he gives that order. Apparently the FSB, Putin's very own domain, is no longer strictly loyal to him. We should assist these powers - and never let Russia or the world know about it, not during the action, and not after it.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And scruple sor reason have nothikng to do with that, Neal. He is a coward. Thats simple. He has nos cruples to do underhanded deals, though, and a cionsistent opportunist. And that is why it is a blessing that he is not the one in the voal officve right now. Like Putin, he has a strongly psychopathic, antisocial personality structure. But he lacks the ice-cold calculating brains that Putin once had.Both men are extrneely brutal, but the means by which they project that brutality and aggressiveness are quite different. Both men show strongn signs of paranoia, since as long a sI can remember them, and obviously also extremely strong egocentrism, but team Trump scores heavily in additional narcissism.



I am no fan of Biden, and yes, obviously his age is clearly to be seen, and yet: you underestimate the value of having him in thsi crisis, not Trump. Biden is a brainc hild of the cold war, he knwos that gam,e, how it wa splayed, he knwos the rules of it, he was part of it. He is modest. And nevertehless he also is "America first", something that many in Europoe overlook and maybe even Americans. Not evertyhing he says and done is sleepy or slow, but simply: subtle and clever.

.

You really don't know Biden. Seriously, you are giving that career hack way to much credit.

[Catfish]

I admit i do not know much of Biden, but i saw and heard this blithering idiot who became president before.
Biden's speech underwhelming, i agree (ahem).
Re Hillary you have links other than Fox or Breitbart who give evidence? When i read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillar...il_controversy it is not exactly a breaker, but a controversy.
You really think that Sanders had a chance against anyone else, in the conservative US?

[les green01]

lol i think some of you guys are smoking some good stuff don't know if i need to laugh or walk away shaking my head

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by les green01

lol i think some of you guys are smoking some good stuff don't know if i need to laugh or walk away shaking my head

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

You really don't know Biden. Seriously, you are giving that career hack way to much credit.

No I donbt, I know that he made the U-turn several times in his career.

But the alternative to Biden was and is Trump.

The choice, with all flaws Biden has, nevertheless is easy.

Try to understand this, I am no Biden fan. Not at all, you cannot find many post of me, if any, where I applaude and celebrate him. I mostly leave your political national affairs alone since last year's elections. But so far I rate his handling of this Ukraine drama as the much lesser evil, compared to what the Donald could have done with his "strange" ways. I also think the chaotic withdrawel from Afghanistan is consistent with what Biden thinks and what I agree with: he put America first, no matter the cost for others, he left the sh!t because there was nothing but costs and no gains and the war was unwinnable since years and he did not care for the reputation cost and in then end he saved quite some Americans' interests and lives that way, did not care for the fallout. One could have planned for that earlier, and doing it in a more controlled way, but he said: nuff is enough, and got you out. I think it could have been done earlier and better managed, but in principle agree.

Or would you have stayed ten more years in which you carefully deesign the process of withdrawing? The French went out of Mali now, the Germans still are there, being practically ineffective. and they only stay because in germany politicians want to avoid discussions about the failure the Mali mission is. So they leave the troops where they are, to not have that discussion. Thats what American politicians did with Afganistan, and way too long.

Better a dirty end than dirt without an end.


That Republicans put theri perposnal and pöarty power itnerst above the naiutons interewsst and thus block Bidne to detah in evertyhing, is something you cannot hold him accountable for. The pest causing this, is a generally derailed political system, and Trump.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by les green01

lol i think some of you guys are smoking some good stuff don't know if i need to laugh or walk away shaking my head

Well from an outsider guy's view you are completely crazy even w/o smoking pot (and maybe we should not write about clinical stuff).
Care to elaborate? Please read the Wikipedia entry first, us outsiders (not only 'Germany') are obviously not used to read the same news sources you do

[Catfish]

No answer *is* an answer

[John Pancoast]

Not at all. Maybe it's just not worth a person's time, etc.

[Rockstar]

Speaking of useful stooges. There those who make stupid mistakes and act no different than the rest of our politicians trying to dig up dirt on each other to get elected i.e internal politics. All the while they still continue and preside over the shipments of arms, logistical support and train the military of Ukraine

Then there’s those who are just evil back stabbing hypocrites a paid spokesman for Putin on the global stage and smile about because they get paid very well by the Russian oligarchy and Putin. Don’t get me started on those who just went along with it.



https://usefulstooges.com/2015/12/11...s-e250000-pal/

Gerhard Schröder, Putin’s €250,000 pal

Schröder and Putin – a special friendship



Among the surprisingly many members of the Western European political elite who’ve been remarkably steadfast in their, um, understanding for even the most brutal conduct by Vladimir Putin, one of the staunchest has been Gerhard Schröder, who served as chancellor of Germany from 1998 to 2005. Schröder, as it happens, sits on the board of Russia’s Gazprom, the giant government-owned natural-gas company, and is a longtime personal chum of the Kremlin thug (whom he’s called a “flawless democrat”). Putin once turned up at Schröder’s home in Hanover “with a Russian choir to celebrate his birthday.” Schröder has described Putin as having “a very close relationship to Germany” – noting that in the 1980s Putin was a KGB spy stationed in East Germany. (As we all know, of course, that’s the best way to develop a “very close relationship.”)

Gerhard-Schroeder_2895463cAnd what a friend Schröder has been! When Putin invaded Ukraine, Schröder was quick to defend his buddy: Putin, he argued, was simply trying to keep Russia strong and on par with the U.S. Who could criticize that worthy goal? Putin, Schröder further explained was justly worried about “being encircled” – as if there were even the remotest possibility of a military incursion into Russia from Ukraine or Poland or one of the Baltic states. Schröder also made the point that Ukraine is “culturally divided,” with some Ukrainians identifying more with the West, others looking to Russia – so hey, why not let Putin seize some of the pro-Russian part of the country?



At least Schröder acknowledged that the invasion constituted a clear violation of international law – but he hastened to add that the 1999 NATO bombing of Serbia also violated international law. Never mind that Putin’s action was an aggressive, unprovoked land grab by a brutal dictator, and NATO’s bombing was a humanitarian effort to save the lives of people who were being targeted by a genocidal dictator.

Germany’s current chancellor, Angela Merkel, was outraged by Schröder’s support for Putin’s assault on Ukraine. Roland Nelles of Der Spiegel wasn’t impressed either. When Schröder celebrated his 70th birthday with Putin in April of last year – hot on the heels of the Crimea invasion – Nelles accused him of “making a mockery of Berlin’s foreign policy.” Yes, the two guys are pals. But still, wrote Nelles,

russland-praesident-wladimir-putin-und-altkanzler-gerhard-schroederSchröder ought to know better. If the former German chancellor believes he can continue his friendship as if nothing has happened, it’s a mistake. Schröder’s own center-left Social Democratic Party is currently the junior coalition partner in Chancellor Angela Merkel’s government, which is frantically trying to prevent his friend Vladimir from carrying out the policies of a power-drunk hegemon in Eastern Europe. In difficult times like these, a former German leader should, at least publicly, keep a safe distance from Putin….as Germany’s former leader, he is still obliged to maintain a statesman-like responsibility for his country.

Thomas Holl of Frankfurter Allgemeine agreed. Reacting to photographs of Schröder hugging Putin, he called them “macabre.”




One interesting detail about that 70th birthday party. It was hosted by Nord Stream AG, a Gazprom subsidiary that operates a gas pipeline between Russia and Germany. Guess who’s the chairman of Nord Stream’s advisory board, raking in €250,000 a year from the Russian government? None other than Gerhard Schröder. In fact, he took the job only weeks after his party lost the 2005 parliamentary elections, forcing him to hand over the chancellorship to Merkel. “Opponents,” recalled Reuters, “said the haste with which he took up the job was unseemly and the link to Russian interests too direct for a former chancellor.” In any event, the fundamental fact about Schröder now seems clear. As Bundestag member Manuel Sarrazi puts it, he’s “spreading the Kremlin’s propaganda” and is “now a paid spokesman for Russia.”

[Skybird]

The German disgust for Schroeder's role in all this is culminating, his public deconstruction is in full swing. His party has deleted him for the hall of chancellor paintings and wants to throw him out, practically all his honourings and titles have been stripped of him, he is persona non grata. He is dispised and attacked very, ver ymuch.

And still refuses to speak out against Putin and the war.

He once called Putin "einen lupenreinen Demokraten".

However, the bigger damage, the far bigger damage, was done by Merkel. She has systematically and with the greatest possible consistency maximized German dependencies and weaknesses vis-à-vis Russia, China, and maximised also liabilities to the EU and the insidious neutralization of German resistance to the abuse of the ECB by debt takers. I called her often the worst political desaster for Germany since 1933-45, and I stick with that, do not take back one word of it. Its true. Not as bad as Hitler, but the worst since Hitler. The global appreciatioon she is beign met with, is undeserved. She has messed up every single course plotting in her reign, and the result is a chain of desastrous errors that hang like millstones around our neck.

[Jimbuna]

He's obviously not a tea drinker then

[Rockstar]

It’s amazing. People are STILL griping over what could’ve, would’ve and should’ve happened. By a person who is no longer an ongoing concern.

Meanwhile the very thing they are still griping over about what might have been about a person who no longer matters. Actually without a doubt DID happen and continued to happen for many years, not by the orange man living rent free in their minds. But by their own leadership and government institutions and got paid well by Putin too boot.

Stop projecting.