Graf Zeppelin wreck found!

Phylacista · 07-28-06, 07:43 AM

I stumbled over this article http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/m...428978,00.html saying that sonar pictures in the Ostsee show a wreck that most probalby resembles the Graf Zeppelin. Article is in german.

07-28-06, 07:50 AM

Whoa!

But i hate this: "Sonar identifiziert Nazi-Flugzeugträger"
(Sonar identifies Nazi-Aircraftcarrier)

Calling German Kriegsmarine Ships "Nazi-Ships" makes me so damn angry!

Drebbel · 07-28-06, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Calling German Kriegsmarine Ships "Nazi-Ships" makes me so damn angry!

It is the truth isn't it ? We should not put our heads in the sand, we ARE fighting for the Nazis in SHIII.

07-28-06, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drebbel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Calling German Kriegsmarine Ships "Nazi-Ships" makes me so damn angry!

It is the truth isn't it ? We should not put our heads in the sand, we ARE fighting for the Nazis in SHIII.

No its not. Its just respectless against all the german sailors/soldiers who died... german soldier=nazi... oooof course...

we dont need to discuss the regime, no way... but to call everything whats german (from this time of course) nazi makes me really pi$$y...

bigboywooly · 07-28-06, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drebbel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Calling German Kriegsmarine Ships "Nazi-Ships" makes me so damn angry!

It is the truth isn't it ? We should not put our heads in the sand, we ARE fighting for the Nazis in SHIII.

No its not. Its just respectless against all the german sailors/soldiers who died... german soldier=nazi... oooof course...

we dont need to discuss the regime, no way... but to call everything whats german (from this time of course) nazi makes me really pi$$y...

Agreed

The Kreigsmarine were the least political branch of the German armed forces too
Very similair to the Royal Navy - they respect their traditions and heritage more than the oaf at the head of the country - Old skool

Drebbel · 07-28-06, 08:17 AM

They do not call all sailors Nazis. the call the vessel a Nazi carrier, nothing wrong with that IMHO.

I think too many people are sticking their head in the sand. The uboat force and general kriegsmarine was full of intelligent, well educated, high ranking officers and non-officers. Maybe the average sailor did not have much of a choice. But the high ranking officers made a consious choice to join/fight for the Nazis or not. Most of them unfortunately made the wrong choice and after the war hide behind the phrase "I just was doing my job"

And even those simple brave sailors mght simply be doing there job, but still they where doing the their thing for the wrong side, they where fighting the Nazi war. And if you fight (do the dirty work) for a certain group to make them more powerfull then you belong to that group and are a representative of that group.

Just my 2cts

KL Seestern · 07-28-06, 09:27 AM

Yes, I agree there's nothing wrong with the phrase 'Nazi aircraft carrier': as a designation of the ship itself, it's technically quite correct. It was built (or mostly built) at the behest of the Nazi government in order to form part of the Nazi military machine. As Drebbel says, the phrase doesn't imply anything about the political views of the crew members.

Onkel Neal · 07-28-06, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drebbel

They do not call all sailors Nazis. the call the vessel a Nazi carrier, nothing wrong with that IMHO.

I think too many people are sticking their head in the sand. The uboat force and general kriegsmarine was full of intelligent, well educated, high ranking officers and non-officers. Maybe the average sailor did not have much of a choice. But the high ranking officers made a consious choice to join/fight for the Nazis or not. Most of them unfortunately made the wrong choice and after the war hide behind the phrase "I just was doing my job"

And even those simple brave sailors mght simply be doing there job, but still they where doing the their thing for the wrong side, they where fighting the Nazi war. And if you fight (do the dirty work) for a certain group to make them more powerfull then you belong to that group and are a representative of that group.

Just my 2cts

I agree. Even the least political and most reluctant German sailor was fighting FOR the Nazi regime.

I don't know why calling a German vessel in WWII a "Nazi" vessel should make anyone angry, it's not generally meant as a slight to those honorable Kriegsmarine men who were drowning American, Canadian, and British sailors in the cold Atlantic swells. It's just common usage of the term.

just my opinion,
Neal

Grom · 07-30-06, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Whoa!

But i hate this: "Sonar identifiziert Nazi-Flugzeugträger"
(Sonar identifies Nazi-Aircraftcarrier)

Calling German Kriegsmarine Ships "Nazi-Ships" makes me so damn angry!

Cant You be just happy because this mighty vessel have been found ? What is the matter how jurnalist or whoever it was called Nazi Ship or German Ship ? It is not important in this history. Important is that ship have been found. Why do You make kind of political statement because of missspell or missunderstand or however You like to call this small misstake. I have noticed this as very good news. One secret less in human history.

07-31-06, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Whoa!

But i hate this: "Sonar identifiziert Nazi-Flugzeugträger"
(Sonar identifies Nazi-Aircraftcarrier)

Calling German Kriegsmarine Ships "Nazi-Ships" makes me so damn angry!

Cant You be just happy because this mighty vessel have been found ? What is the matter how jurnalist or whoever it was called Nazi Ship or German Ship ? It is not important in this history. Important is that ship have been found. Why do You make kind of political statement because of missspell or missunderstand or however You like to call this small misstake. I have noticed this as very good news. One secret less in human history.

You can find the reason inside this thread... By the way, good job to keep this dead discussion alive Grom...

Winston · 07-31-06, 02:37 AM

Has anyone got any links to high-resolution pictures of the sonar images of the wreck? I seen the one article where there was a fellow holding one up but it was a small picture. I’d love to be able to check out the details. Failing that has anyone got any good pictures of the ship when it was afloat?

Hear are some that I've seen so far, just wish they were bigger!

Grom · 07-31-06, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

You can find the reason inside this thread...

O really ? I wouldnt guess in my live.

BTW Your reasons are like old Poles used to say:
Looking for any hole in whole bridge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

By the way, good job to keep this dead discussion alive
Grom...

Thank You for remain. Let myself decide what is interesting for me and where to answere.

BTW i dont think You are to decide which thread is dead, it is only Your own opinion.
For those who did not see mighty Graf Zeppelin after the war, 2 pics made by pilot of rescue plane near to Stettin in 1947 (this is what source of pics claims)

07-31-06, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

You can find the reason inside this thread...

O really ? I wouldnt guess in my live.

so why do you ask?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grom

BTW i dont think You are to decide which thread is dead, it is only Your own opinion.

I said this discussion is dead/should be....not this thread. there are others too who think this discussion should find an end, so its not only my opinion...

nice pics anyway...

Jager · 07-28-06, 03:26 PM

FYI A regular soldier in the Wehrmacht could NOT be apart of the Nazi party, it was not allowed. You however have your exceptions with Goering, and the whole bunch but to call Kriegsmarine ships "Nazi ships" is just fubar for me. It is the same as saying that all German's who fought in WW2 for their country and loved ones are nazis which is certainly not true. It just enrages me to see that old sterotype even today and I think about my grandfather and uncle who fought in WW2 for the Germans and barely got out alive (my uncle being captured by the Russians and spending 7 years in a POW camp, he was only 18 years old too).

Skyfire.uy · 08-01-06, 04:24 PM

Thks for the link mate,!!, great photos!!

I have the 1/720 scale modell kit from Revell Germany and the pictures I found in your link are excellent as historical reference!

. I am eager to start building it

.

Keep up the good work !!

I would like to see photos of the wreck , snif!

Saludos!!!

Skyfire.uy

07-28-06, 07:43 AM	#1
Phylacista Electrician's Mate Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Aachen, Germany Posts: 133 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Graf Zeppelin wreck found! I stumbled over this article http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/m...428978,00.html saying that sonar pictures in the Ostsee show a wreck that most probalby resembles the Graf Zeppelin. Article is in german. __________________ commissioned 01APR1941 - 1.Flotilla Brest - 110,000 GRT total - 84 days at sea click pic to see how the real U-556 fared

07-31-06, 02:37 AM	#11
Winston Wild Night in Bangkok Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wales Posts: 179 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Has anyone got any links to high-resolution pictures of the sonar images of the wreck? I seen the one article where there was a fellow holding one up but it was a small picture. I’d love to be able to check out the details. Failing that has anyone got any good pictures of the ship when it was afloat? Hear are some that I've seen so far, just wish they were bigger! __________________ "Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash"

07-28-06, 07:50 AM	#2
Nippelspanner Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Whoa! But i hate this: "Sonar identifiziert Nazi-Flugzeugträger" (Sonar identifies Nazi-Aircraftcarrier) Calling German Kriegsmarine Ships "Nazi-Ships" makes me so damn angry!

07-28-06, 08:17 AM	#6
Drebbel Dutch Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Almost at periscope death ! Posts: 1,665 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	They do not call all sailors Nazis. the call the vessel a Nazi carrier, nothing wrong with that IMHO. I think too many people are sticking their head in the sand. The uboat force and general kriegsmarine was full of intelligent, well educated, high ranking officers and non-officers. Maybe the average sailor did not have much of a choice. But the high ranking officers made a consious choice to join/fight for the Nazis or not. Most of them unfortunately made the wrong choice and after the war hide behind the phrase "I just was doing my job" And even those simple brave sailors mght simply be doing there job, but still they where doing the their thing for the wrong side, they where fighting the Nazi war. And if you fight (do the dirty work) for a certain group to make them more powerfull then you belong to that group and are a representative of that group. Just my 2cts

07-28-06, 09:27 AM	#7
KL Seestern Mate Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 53 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Yes, I agree there's nothing wrong with the phrase 'Nazi aircraft carrier': as a designation of the ship itself, it's technically quite correct. It was built (or mostly built) at the behest of the Nazi government in order to form part of the Nazi military machine. As Drebbel says, the phrase doesn't imply anything about the political views of the crew members.

07-28-06, 03:26 PM	#14
Jager Loader Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Land of "Freezing my rear off" Posts: 89 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	FYI A regular soldier in the Wehrmacht could NOT be apart of the Nazi party, it was not allowed. You however have your exceptions with Goering, and the whole bunch but to call Kriegsmarine ships "Nazi ships" is just fubar for me. It is the same as saying that all German's who fought in WW2 for their country and loved ones are nazis which is certainly not true. It just enrages me to see that old sterotype even today and I think about my grandfather and uncle who fought in WW2 for the Germans and barely got out alive (my uncle being captured by the Russians and spending 7 years in a POW camp, he was only 18 years old too).

08-01-06, 04:24 PM	#15
Skyfire.uy Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Montevideo - Uruguay. Posts: 5 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Thks for the link mate,!!, great photos!! I have the 1/720 scale modell kit from Revell Germany and the pictures I found in your link are excellent as historical reference! . I am eager to start building it . Keep up the good work !! I would like to see photos of the wreck , snif! Saludos!!! Skyfire.uy