Where are the Christians?

[scandium]

I couldn't resist posting this article, because the title alone brought instantly to mind all of the numerous threads here on the wrongs done to us by Islamic Jihadists, and always with at least one post lamenting the fact that the Muslims can't seem to control their own extremists. Fair enough. Now I ask you, as does The Conservative Voice, where are the Christians?

When Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert unleashed his navy and air force on Lebanon, accusing that tiny nation of an "act of war," the last pillar of Bush's Middle East policy collapsed.

First came capitulation on the Bush Doctrine, as Pyongyang and Tehran defied Bush's dictum: The world's worst regimes will not be allowed to acquire the world's worst weapons. Then came suspension of the democracy crusade as Islamic militants exploited free elections to advance to power and office in Egypt, Lebanon, Gaza, the West Bank, Iraq and Iran.

Now Israel's rampage against a defenseless Lebanon -- smashing airport runways, fuel tanks, power plants, gas stations, lighthouses, bridges, roads and the occasional refugee convoy -- has exposed Bush's folly in subcontracting U.S. policy out to Tel Aviv, thus making Israel the custodian of our reputation and interests in the Middle East.

The Lebanon that Israel, with Bush's blessing, is smashing up has a pro-American government, heretofore considered a shining example of his democracy crusade. Yet, asked in St. Petersburg if he would urge Israel to use restraint in its air strikes, Bush sounded less like the leader of the Free World than some bellicose city councilman from Brooklyn Heights.

What Israel is up to was described by its Army Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz when he threatened to "turn back the clock in Lebanon 20 years."

Olmert seized upon Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers to unleash the IDF in a pre-planned attack to make the Lebanese people suffer until the Lebanese government disarms Hezbollah, a task the Israeli army could not accomplish in 18 years of occupation.

Israel is doing the same to the Palestinians. To punish these people for the crime of electing Hamas, Olmert imposed an economic blockade of Gaza and the West Bank and withheld the $50 million in monthly tax and customs receipts due the Palestinians.

Then, Israel instructed the United States to terminate all aid to the Palestinian Authority, though Bush himself had called for the elections and for the participation of Hamas. Our Crawford cowboy meekly complied. The predictable result: Fatah and Hamas fell to fratricidal fighting, and Hamas militants began launching Qassam rockets over the fence from Gaza into Israel. Hamas then tunneled into Israel, killed two soldiers, captured one, took him back into Gaza, and demanded a prisoner exchange.

Israel's response was to abduct half of the Palestinian cabinet and parliament and blow up a $50 million U.S.-insured power plant. That cut off electricity for half a million Palestinians. Their food spoiled, their water could not be purified, and their families sweltered in the summer heat of the Gaza desert. One family of seven was wiped out on a beach by what the IDF assures us was an errant artillery shell.

Let it be said: Israel has a right to defend herself, a right to counter-attack against Hezbollah and Hamas, a right to clean out bases from which Katyusha or Qassam rockets are being fired and a right to occupy land from which attacks are mounted on her people.

But what Israel is doing is imposing deliberate suffering on civilians, collective punishment on innocent people, to force them to do something they are powerless to do: disarm the gunmen among them. Such a policy violates international law and comports neither with our values nor our interests. It is un-American and un-Christian.

But where are the Christians? Why is Pope Benedict virtually alone among Christian leaders to have spoken out against what is being done to Lebanese Christians and Muslims?

The rest of the article you can read here:

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/16239.html

[Skybird]

Maybe the Christians are simply sick and tired of the ME, who knows...

Since you are so very sure of that Hizbollah and Hamas shall not be fought against, could you tell us what to do, then? But spare your time if your suggestions are just what the UN is writing in it's papers, or that there shall be negotiations with terror organizations. But any better battle plan is welcomed.

Could you also elaborate what use it could be for Israel to intentionally target Lebanese civilians, and to intentionally destroy harmless private homes, and why it is so sure that these are intentional attacks, not siudeeffects that cannot be avopided when waging war in a heavily urbanized areas? Do you have a better idea of how to reduce Hizbollah's weapon stockpiles, to reduce their freedom of movement, and drive them away from the Israeli border? How to destroy a camp inside an appartmenet house, an ammo stockpile in the backroom of a shop? War is not nice, I agree with Mrs. Reagan. but so far no one has shown up with a better REALISTIC idea of how we could limit the threat that is projected by Hizbollah and Hamas to Israel. The border violations of the past years have been into Israel, not from Israel.

A brief reply please - not one of these twisted long debates about political semantics and thematic sidelines, global warming, the consequences of smoking and epidemic deseases, and hairsplitting definition of terms. The simple question is how to prevent two terror organizations from sending mroe suicide bombers to Israel and firing more missiles into Israeli cities? Your answer?

and keep in mind that since day one on I am opposing the Iraq war as determined as I defend Isreals's action now. No lecturing on how much warmongering and Mohammedan-killing I am.

[SUBMAN1]

Chock up another dumb thread!

The christians (like me) were busy with the world cup, female arse, and drinking beer...you know, the important things in life? We've blimming had enough of war...it gets boring after a while. That's why if it was me, and I'm speaking honestly, I'd nuke every fuker within a thousand mile radius. When you want to get rid of ants, what do you do...? Stamp one at a time?....or find their nest, rip the top apart with a bunker busting shoe, then rape the female ants with toothpicks, pillage their food storage and burn their homes with matchsticks?...then get the queen ant and chop her head off with a razor blade...in front of all the other ants! Then the great dam-busting finale...pour boiling water on the rest of the colony. THAT is how you solve a problem. That'll teach 'em to eat my effing honey!!

[scandium]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

The christians (like me) were busy with the world cup, female arse, and drinking beer...you know, the important things in life? We've blimming had enough of war...it gets boring after a while. That's why if it was me, and I'm speaking honestly, I'd nuke every fuker within a thousand mile radius. When you want to get rid of ants, what do you do...? Stamp one at a time?....or find their nest, rip the top apart with a bunker busting shoe, then rape the female ants with toothpicks, pillage their food storage and burn their homes with matchsticks?...then get the queen ant and chop her head off with a razor blade...in front of all the other ants! Then the great dam-busting finale...pour boiling water on the rest of the colony. THAT is how you solve a problem. That'll teach 'em to eat my effing honey!!

The only problem with this approach is twofold:

1. People are not ants.

2. Your approach would also involve your own self-immolation. Are you simply suicidal then?

[scandium]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Chock up another dumb thread!

Not a Pat Buchanan fan huh? I admit he's a little fringe, but I respect the guy all the same (if for no other reason than for his literary skills and ability to dish out what he thinks because he thinks it, and not because its the PC thing or the popular thing or the book peddling thing). Plus his view on current events in the ME is a little novel and not the same AP sanitized and recycled summary you'd turn up otherwise.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by scandium

Not a Pat Buchanan fan huh? I admit he's a little fringe, but I respect the guy all the same (if for no other reason than for his literary skills and ability to dish out what he thinks because he thinks it, and not because its the PC thing or the popular thing or the book peddling thing). Plus his view on current events in the ME is a little novel and not the same AP sanitized and recycled summary you'd turn up otherwise.

I don't care for the guy. I mean, one day he shows up and wants to take a tour of my fathers boat. He really isn't interested in my fathers boat, he just wants a handout for his campaign in my book! I mean, he is alright and everything, but still not my cup of tea. He only wrote this article for the simple reason as to turn heads and get attention, just like everything else he does. Just my 2 cents.

-S

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I don't care for the guy. I mean, one day he shows up and wants to take a tour of my fathers boat. He really isn't interested in my fathers boat, he just wants a handout for his campaign in my book! I mean, he is alright and everything, but still not my cup of tea. He only wrote this article for the simple reason as to turn heads and get attention, just like everything else he does. Just my 2 cents.

-S

Why can't he just ******* and run down the road singing tra-la-la...if he wants attention....like everyone else does.

[scandium]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Maybe the Christians are simply sick and tired of the ME, who knows...

Since you are so very sure of that Hizbollah and Hamas shall not be fought against, could you tell us what to do, then? But spare your time if your suggestions are just what the UN is writing in it's papers, or that there shall be negotiations with terror organizations. But any better battle plan is welcomed.

Could you also elaborate what use it could be for Israel to intentionally target Lebanese civilians, and to intentionally destroy harmless private homes, and why it is so sure that these are intentional attacks, not siudeeffects that cannot be avopided when waging war in a heavily urbanized areas? Do you have a better idea of how to reduce Hizbollah's weapon stockpiles, to reduce their freedom of movement, and drive them away from the Israeli border? How to destroy a camp inside an appartmenet house, an ammo stockpile in the backroom of a shop? War is not nice, I agree with Mrs. Reagan. but so far no one has shown up with a better REALISTIC idea of how we could limit the threat that is projected by Hizbollah and Hamas to Israel. The border violations of the past years have been into Israel, not from Israel.

A brief reply please - not one of these twisted long debates about political semantics and thematic sidelines, global warming, the consequences of smoking and epidemic deseases, and hairsplitting definition of terms. The simple question is how to prevent two terror organizations from sending mroe suicide bombers to Israel and firing more missiles into Israeli cities? Your answer?

and keep in mind that since day one on I am opposing the Iraq war as determined as I defend Isreals's action now. No lecturing on how much warmongering and Mohammedan-killing I am.

In the interests of brevity then I will quote that part of the article I posted, two short paragraphs, which nails precisely my own view. As to the solution, that is for those with more power and resources than I have to come up with; I, for my part, only have that which too many others in power seem to be lacking: an interest in events taking place there and a conviction that this has to stop.

Let it be said: Israel has a right to defend herself, a right to
counter-attack against Hezbollah and Hamas, a right to clean out bases from
which Katyusha or Qassam rockets are being fired and a right to occupy land
from which attacks are mounted on her people.

But what Israel is doing is imposing deliberate suffering on
civilians, collective punishment on innocent people, to force them to do
something they are powerless to do: disarm the gunmen among them. Such a
policy violates international law and comports neither with our values nor
our interests. It is un-American and un-Christian.

For my part I am neither American nor particularly Christian, but collectively punishing innocent people sure as hell isn't any value that I subscribe to.

[Skybird]

Scandium,

Thatn is no answer. You should tell us how to acchieve the objecives in the first paragraph of your quote, instead you tell us that becasue of the second paragraph (with some questionable content) we are not allowed to acchieve the objectives of the first paragraph.

So I repeat the question: how to reduce the armed capacity of two terror organizations, how to hinder them to strike at Israel and sending suicide bombers and missiles into Israeli cities, and preferrably keep them away from Israeli borders and reduce their striking potential to meaningless terms? You only tell us what we should not do, so what should we do?

[scandium]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Scandium,

Thatn is no answer. You should tell us how to acchieve the objecives in the first paragraph of your quote, instead you tell us that becasue of the second paragraph (with some questionable content) we are not allowed to acchieve the objectives of the first paragraph.

So I repeat the question: how to reduce the armed capacity of two terror organizations, how to hinder them to strike at Israel and sending suicide bombers and missiles into Israeli cities, and preferrably keep them away from Israeli borders and reduce their striking potential to meaningless terms? You only tell us what we should not do, so what should we do?

*shrug* I did. I think you are merely paying me back now for insisting you post your solution to the "Islam dilemna", which you never did ... so tough. :p

[Skybird]

No, you did not. How do we reduce the striking potential of Hisbollah, and it's attacks on Israel that are going on since many years, killing plenty of civilians and declaring that a holy cause? You only tell us how we should not do it. What is your alternative?

And while you ask where the Christians are to stop what is going on and to help, I asked myself the same when reading again about Somalia today. May i lease your words:

I couldn't resist posting this article, because the title alone brought instantly to mind all of the numerous threads here on the wrongs done to us by Islamic Jihadists, and always with at least one post lamenting the fact that the Muslims can't seem to control their own expansion Fair enough. Now I ask you, where are the Christians?


[quote]Alert at Somali Islamist advance

The Islamists control much of southern Somalia

Heavily armed militia loyal to Somalia's Islamic courts have arrived in Burhakaba, a town 60km from the base of the interim government in Baidoa.
Somalia's interim prime minister says it is clear the Islamists, who control the capital, plan to advance on Baidoa.
"The national security forces are on high alert," Ali Mohamed Ghedi said.
The leader of the Islamist gunmen in Burhakaba told the BBC that there were no such plans and that the aim was to bring Islamic Sharia law to the region.
"This development could lead to more Somali bloodshed. It is a provocation and violation of areas under control of the government," Mr Ghedi said
His comments came as 150 government troops are reported to have defected to the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC).
Ethiopia, which supports the weak transitional government, has said it will intervene with force if UIC forces attack Baidoa.
Observers believe it is only a matter of time before the two sides clash.

Derail talks
The BBC's Mohammed Olad Hassan says that as the courts militia advanced on Burhakana, they dismantled road blocks run by militia who were extorting money from passing motorists.


Eyewitnesses reported seeing the Islamists entering the town with 10 armed pick-up trucks, known as battle wagons, he says.
Observers fear the latest move may derail efforts to organise talks between the government and UIC which were due to start last weekend.
Earlier this week, Islamist leader Sheikh Sherif Sheikh Ahmed denied reports that the UIC was planning to attack Baidoa, 200km from Mogadishu.
He was quoted as saying that they wanted to work with "whoever wants to return peace to Somalia".
Some fear that Somalia could descend into renewed conflict between the UIC and the government, possibly involving regional and international players.

Ethiopia, which is seen as close to the government, repeated its accusations that Eritrea is arming the UIC.
The UIC has accused Ethiopia of already sending troops to Baidoa but both governments have repeatedly denied such claims.
The International Contact Group was set up by the US after the Islamists seized Mogadishu last month.

'Porn film crackdown'
Meanwhile in Mogadishu, at least 14 people including a woman have been arrested for watching what Islamists say was a "pornographic" film.
"They were watching a sexual film, which is forbidden in Islam" said Sheikh Dahir Shiekhow, chairman of the court in the area.
The film, being shown at a local cinema, had scenes of nudity.
"At least 20 armed militia with a Toyota pick-up car mounted with a machine-gun arrived where we watched film; they ordered us not to move and then arrested us," said Mohamed Ade, who was released on Wednesday afternoon. Mr Shiekhow said most the detainees had been released after being warned not to watch such films again. The Islamists, which have brought some form of law and order to areas under their control after 15 years of anarchy, believe that Sharia law is the only solution to Somalia's problems.

[VipertheSniper]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Scandium,

Thatn is no answer. You should tell us how to acchieve the objecives in the first paragraph of your quote, instead you tell us that becasue of the second paragraph (with some questionable content) we are not allowed to acchieve the objectives of the first paragraph.

So I repeat the question: how to reduce the armed capacity of two terror organizations, how to hinder them to strike at Israel and sending suicide bombers and missiles into Israeli cities, and preferrably keep them away from Israeli borders and reduce their striking potential to meaningless terms? You only tell us what we should not do, so what should we do?

Have they declared war on Libanon? I guess so...

I just hope they are already preparing for an invasion of the south of Libanon, to search and destroy the rockets with infantry and tanks rather than bombs that kill indiscriminantly. That is in my opinion the only viable temporary solution.

For Palestine: To forgive and forget, ON BOTH SIDES, what has happened in the past, and finally sit down at the table to negotiate. That means no more, my way or the highway politics from both sides. If they could finally get that in their dickheads... TAAADAAA PEACE! or something along those lines.

[Ducimus]

They can all be found at the local church once a week comparing clothing.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by scandium

Now I ask you, as does The Conservative Voice, where are the Christians?

Simply stated, the political force of the United States is run by special interest. There are three very powerful lobbies in the US: The evangelical Christian lobby, the pro-Israeli lobby, and the oil lobby. The evangelicals have alligned themselves with the Israeli lobby on social issues, and are not likely to speak out against the actions of the IDF. So, criticism of Israel is very much in the same state as the chance of any meaningful alternative energy research: Not likely until special interest can be curbed, and the people can once again regain their voices.