Rape and Murder by US Troops in Iraq

[scandium]

"Five American soldiers have been accused of raping an Iraqi woman then killing her along with three members of her family, including a child, before burning their bodies to destroy the evidence.

Military officials in Baghdad said yesterday that the men were the subject of a criminal investigation after two soldiers from the same infantry platoon came forward with information about the alleged incident. A week-long preliminary inquiry had established that there was sufficient evidence to proceed.

One soldier is reported to have been arrested after admitting his role in the incident, while four others have had their weapons taken away."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...01/ixnews.html

[Drebbel]

Ofcourse !

Thats just a mather of statistics. Rape and Murder is committed by a certain percentage of the pupulation. That percentage includes Millitary, priests, sweet school teachers, brothers, and the guy working at the news paper stand on the corner.

[scandium]

Right... rape and murder... just a statistic.

Edit: there are a few things about this that I find particularly notable:

It involved 4 or 5 perpetrators (depending on the article you look at); unlike the Haditha incident, it was reportedly a "crime of opportunity" (and not done in the heat of battle); three members of her family were killed and the house burned down to cover it up; the incident was initially attributed to sectarian violence (until someone came forward).

Its also a little different from a crime committed by "priests, sweet school teachers, brothers, and the guy working at the news paper stand on the corner" because:

a: None of the above are armed by a foreign occupying power;

b: None of the above are responsible, as an occupying power, for maintaining the security of the people;

c: None of the above are engaged in fighting an insurgency and "winning the hearts and minds of the people".

[Skybird]

That comes with every war. I have predicted things like Abu Graib, this mess now, or guerilla warfare emerging after the field battle and later switching to terror and civil war even beoire the invasion 2003 and was bashed for that. Not the first and not the last incident of this kind. Maybe one should not be so enthusiastic about going to war, then. "Krieg vertiert" (E. Bahr).

[scandium]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That comes with every war. I have predicted things like Abu Graib, this mess now, or guerilla warfare emerging after the field battle and later switching to terror and civil war even beoire the invasion 2003 and was bashed for that. Not the first and not the last incident of this kind. Maybe one should not be so enthusiastic about going to war, then. "Krieg vertiert" (E. Bahr).

I was never in favour of it and felt quite relieved when our PM declined the "invitation" to join. But you cannot just dismiss this stuff as "inevitable" or "merely a statistic" either; after all, the US is a signatory to the Geneva Conventions and has a responsibility, as an occupying power, to respect them - as do those in its military (which is why these incidents are naturally being investigated and why, if there is guilt, the perpetrators will presumably be held accountable).

Edit: there's another factor here that makes this intriguing:

This happened back in March. In June two soldiers from the same regiment were kidnapped, killed, and mutilated which was what prompted one of the accused in the March rape incident to come forward (according to various articles). The coincidences, timeline, and circumstances of the confession lead me to speculate as to if the kidnappings were prompted as retaliation for the March rape/murders - not that the insurgencies seem to need any excuse to commit their own atrocities, mind you (and therefore the two incidents could easily be completely unrelated). However the enemy's ability to recruit among the disaffected, its ability to hold grudges and inflict stupendous brutality all indicate to me just how important it is to scrupulously follow the Geneva Conventions and punish those who violate them; else who knows how more civilians decide to join the insurgency and perpetrate brutality of their own in reprisal.

I pity the people over there - both the military trying to do an uneviable job and those simply trying to live their lives in this hellhole.

[gabeeg]

In defence of Drebbel, I dont think he is limiting the tragedy to that of a simple statistic but making the point that In a certain population...whatever the population you will have a certain percentage of bad apples. Like in a city or 150,000 people you may have 20 rapes and 15 murders in a year. Well, when you have 150,000 troops you are going to get similar statistics (actually the percentages of crimes commited are lower for military personel from what I have heard, when this was discussed during desert storm).

If it turns out they are guilty, they deserve never to see the light of day again, or breath free air. (If I were in favor of the death penalty this would be one instance considering the circumstances where a firing squad would be in order).

[LoBlo]

Originally Posted by scandium

Right... rape and murder... just a statistic.

Edit: there are a few things about this that I find particularly notable:

It involved 4 or 5 perpetrators (depending on the article you look at); unlike the Haditha incident, it was reportedly a "crime of opportunity" (and not done in the heat of battle); three members of her family were killed and the house burned down to cover it up; the incident was initially attributed to sectarian violence (until someone came forward).

Its also a little different from a crime committed by "priests, sweet school teachers, brothers, and the guy working at the news paper stand on the corner" because:

a: None of the above are armed by a foreign occupying power;

b: None of the above are responsible, as an occupying power, for maintaining the security of the people;

c: None of the above are engaged in fighting an insurgency and "winning the hearts and minds of the people".

I'm not sure what your curiousity or confusion is about. A criminal is a criminal, even if he's whering a uniform. These guys should be prosecuted and it sounds like its already underway.

[SUBMAN1]

Yep - simple statistics. Actually, if this is the only incident, then it is a low statistic as suggested.

-S

PS. Read up on Napoleonic times - this happened then too as well as throughout history.