Convince me, DW fans.

[Enigma]

So, im an SH3 junkie. But, Im very interested in DW. Im a huge fan of the modern subs, more so than the U-boats, and im really itching to launch some sophisticated weaponry at in-land targets, and encounter enemy subs, etc. DW is sitting on the shelf at my local best buy. However, I admit im a tad intimidated. Im worried ill spend $40 only to find all the bells and whistles of modern technology to be too much for me. Not that im not willing to stare down a manual, or put the time in to learn, but I know alot about what subs can do, but barely anything about how its done.

I hope this makes sense. Im hoping to get some feedback, mainly from folks that were in the same boat (no pun intended) as me when they purchased DW....

Thanks in advance guys....

[Molon Labe]

The technology is actually the easy part. The part that people usually find challenging is TMA, and there's autocrew to do that for you if you want.

[Rip]

Using auto-crews you can abstract many of the difficult tasks. No one with an interest in modern ASW warfare could go wrong with this game.

[Wildcat]

It's not even the TMA that's difficult. All you have to do is line up some dots. After a while a little experience will help your TMA out. Things like how strong the contact is on sonar, or how many blades you've got showing on the DEMON display, that kind of thing will help you with your TMA if you decide to learn it manually. After that it's just a matter of dragging the little TMA cursor around until the dots fit.

In all honesty I started with 688i then sub command and never once needed the manual to figure out what I was doing. That's not to say I'm better than everyone else; but if you play enough you will figure things out on your own.

Dangerous Waters comes with numerous large tutorial videos on the second disk that you can browse and learn from. The manual is huge as well, it's like being back in 1999.

Dangerous Waters is a REALLY great game with very few shortcomings. Some of the most obvious ones are being fixed I'm sure, and when the next patch comes out I'm not sure there is going to be much left to improve on. There is NO other game that even comes close to the realism of this wonderful, interplatform game. No other sim even comes close. DC/SH2 were great, but Dangerous Waters is lightyears more advanced than those titles were.

If you're really interested in driving modern platforms, you should absolutely get this game. It's very scaleable. You can turn on all kinds of goodies (cheats) to help you learn the game. Once you start to become more proficient, you can disable them one by one until eventually you're doing everything by yourself (Though I'd venture to say most people turn on auto TMA when things get very busy).

Buy it!

[Bellman]

Wildcat: Nice write-up man !

Why SAS could'nt do much better than stick that quote somewhere where it counts.

Yeh - you got the progress just about right.

NB. OK so whats with all these Bellman laurels this morning ? - well heck the suns shining and its a hoiliday - and we've got a great new site layout. LwAmi has given us some great new toys (sorry tools !) Molons doing real business and best of all Wildcat reflects what, inspite of others niggles, we all know - that DW is just the best of all Sims !! (I'm only ON tea !!)

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Enigma

Not that im not willing to stare down a manual, or put the time in to learn, but I know alot about what subs can do, but barely anything about how its done.

I hope this makes sense. Im hoping to get some feedback, mainly from folks that were in the same boat (no pun intended) as me when they purchased DW....

Thanks in advance guys....

You'll be fine. The user interface in DW is very straight forward. The most complicated thing in the whole game is TMA, which can be as complex or as simple as you want it to be. You can play with Autocrew enabled if you don't want to plunge into it immediately.

Really, the fun thing about wargames in general, is that you don't need to know how things are really done. They let you experiment with your own ideas about how things get done.

[Ula Jolly]

If you try DW, which I recommend, you too will have wet dreams about mixing the best of SHIII and DW. I think you will like it, but being an SH junkie, there will have to be adaptation. The Kilo is like a Type IID in 1945, and the Seawolf, it's an XXI in 1939. Honestly, you can screw everything and their grandmother with it and not make a sound.
I bought DW first, THEN SHIII. You will be amazed at the lack of terrain detail, which takes absolutely all the fun out of playing with the diesel/electric subs. No truly littoral waters. The game is best adapted for those Ohio-Akula battles out there in the open, under the ice or elsewhere. The many sensors are wicked, and it's kinda cool to collect data about the enemy.
The MH60 is like a Catalina/A-10 Warthog hybrid, on stereos. Loaded with all the essentials to send you to the bottom (assload of active/passive sensors), it is truly a bitch. Some people actually surface and seek to shoot them down with the onboard SAM system - crazy people mostly. But hey, if you're in a corner...
The Perry, now there... there is true goodness. I hate it myself, but don't say you never fantasized about commanding that Hunt II yourself! Submarines are best off when allied to it or not at all near it.

DW gives you so much more than SHIII in terms of instruments and weapons (!) and opponents! It's not AS FUN to sink the Nimitz as a Bogue (boo @ lack of semiprocedurally generated campaigns), but it can be very satisfying to battle it out as a Perry frigate, with a soviet frigate of the Udaloy class (you'll be screaming at the gatling guns to hammer faster). Similar fun can be had wrestling your P-3 against a Soviet Bear or any other aircraft.

Whatever you do, don't fantasize about 1024xtime.

If I was you, I'd try the demo beforehand. The game is excellent in it's execution...not so much in aesthetics, unfortunately. Some people can't get past the graphics barrier, which is a shame (you might be one of them). If you do, you'll find an excellent game/simulator. Though coming from SH3, you are better off trying the demo...needless to say SH3 is miles better in the graphics department and DW will be a step back. Though to be honest, I don't see how they could fit in SH3 style graphics with such attention to detail when it comes to platform hardware...and take into account the whole planet is mapped as opposed to only the Atlantic.

There are also minor glitches and bugs which have to be sorted out (as in SH3)...and the AI sometimes can be left wanting (as in SH3). But this hopefully will be sorted out in future patches.

I think of DW as more of a war simulator and SH3 as more of a game...you know those simulators the army uses to train the men? They concentrate more on accuracy then how pretty it all looks...this is sort of like that.

Let us know if you decide to buy it...to be honest...the graphics have their moments (I've taken some nice screenshots in game) so not all that bad once you get used to them, and it will give you hours upon hours of enjoyment. There you go...a completely fair review of the game.

In conclusion: I recommend it highly...

[Ula Jolly]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

...and take into account the whole planet is mapped as opposed to only the Atlantic.

I just have to nit... I do think in SHIII, all of the world is mapped? Venturing into the Indian ocean isn't rare for distancelovers, and the mission editor covers the entire world.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

I think of DW as more of a war simulator and SH3 as more of a game...you know those simulators the army uses to train the men? They concentrate more on accuracy then how pretty it all looks...this is sort of like that.

You guys are WAY too hard on the graphics for DW. I bought DW right after I finished a short trip aboard an FFG, and was AMAZED at how well they'd captured the feel of things. They may not be the greatest graphics on the market, but they're not bad at all. Compared to Harpoon where all you have is tactical displays, the graphics are great.

I think the land definitely needs work, though. I've also noticed places which are geographically inaccurate, such as the port of Aden. It'd be nice to have more landmarks and things. I think that matters most for the airborne platforms, actually. Even so, it's still a beautiful simulation. It really isn't as bad as that.

[LuftWolf]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

You guys are WAY too hard on the graphics for DW. I bought DW right after I finished a short trip aboard an FFG, and was AMAZED at how well they'd captured the feel of things. They may not be the greatest graphics on the market, but they're not bad at all. Compared to Harpoon where all you have is tactical displays, the graphics are great.

I think the land definitely needs work, though. I've also noticed places which are geographically inaccurate, such as the port of Aden. It'd be nice to have more landmarks and things. I think that matters most for the airborne platforms, actually. Even so, it's still a beautiful simulation. It really isn't as bad as that.

I completely agree here.

I spend the vast vast majority of my time staring at the interfaces, which are very well done. So what people are asking for is, essentially, a major overhaul to the least important part of this game for people playing the game the way it was designed to be played.

I don't really understand the push for graphic excellence, myself, I think we'd be better off writing better software, but then again, that's why I won't be a gaming industry executive.

[Nexus7]

I didn't read anything in this topic, just that you are a SHIII player.

If you love to play SHIII using free sight you will feel unconfortable with DW. There are a LOT of differences between SHIII and DW or Sub Command.

If you are interested in knowing the basic functionalities of a modern nuclear sub and with DW even teamplay as part of a task force, then DW IS YOUR ONLY CHOICE.

If you look at graphics but are not much interested in tactics, don't have much patience, like the "angriffsrohr", lock and fire, instead of manually entering bearing, range, ceiling, speed, depth of the fish and manually steer the fish on target after refining your tracking motion analysis (or leaving the job to the AI), then you won't have a pleasant experience.

In DW evasion is as much important as the ability to engage a contact. While in SHIII the enemy will fire depth charges and not much else, here you get to deal with million dollars torpedoes coming right into your stomach. It takes a while to learn to evade torpedoes, making correct use of all the possible means aboard.

Best hint i can give, is probably to try the demo.

cya around (maybe)

[Enigma]

Well, im installing my brand new copy of DW right now....so see me you will, with lots of noob questions. Since even when you pay $40 for the game you still dont get the manual. that bothers me. Buying the manula for extra $?! Crazy.

But, we'll see how i like the game. I enjoyed the Demo, so im confident ill like the game. Im really looking forward to hitting some in-land targets...

Don't bother buying the manual...just do what I do (Did it with Falcon 4.0 AF...that manual is bigger with 815 pages!!). Print out your PDF manual, but instead of printing 1 manual page per 1 printer sheet, fit 4 manual pages on each sheet of printer paper and use both sides. This way you wont spend a bomb on paper and ink and you wont have to worry about damaging the manual and can write notes in the margins, like I do.

At the end of the day, you have a choice...go blind by reading it through the PDF, pay even more money for a printed manual, or print it out like I do without using up tons of ink and paper. Good luck, whatever you decide.

[Deadeye313]

I went with the printed manual and I learn something new almost every time I open the book.

If there is one saving grace to DW (I love it all to be honest but if you need just one...) it's that kills are soooo much more satisfying than any FPS or RTS. Where those rely on trigger reflexes or some vague concept of strategy, here you actually look for that b stard, track him down , watch him knowing he may not know you are there , and sink his sorry butt .