Russian Deep-Sea Vessel Stuck, Trapping 7

Carcassonne · 08-05-05, 10:53 AM

Sorry if this has been posted already...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164821,00.html

Kafka · 08-05-05, 11:00 AM

Following story closely. Stuck at 190m, less than 20 hours of oxygen left, don't think they stand a chance.

Type941 · 08-05-05, 11:15 AM

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=41213

Posted before on this forum, but general section.

Whatever the agendas, I hope those guys make it safe out.

PS> That's the spirit kafka.

Carcassonne · 08-05-05, 11:16 AM

From MSNBC:

Russian state TV: Rescue vessel towing mini-sub to shallower waters

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8833336/

Kafka · 08-05-05, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Type941

PS> That's the spirit kafka.

my friend, my name wouldn't be Kafka otherwise...

SteamWake · 08-05-05, 11:21 AM

Snagged on a fishing net in 620 feet of water.

This is just bizzare. I have one question to ask......

Why is a 7 man "rescue" sub doing out there in 620 feet of water without evidently any support crew.

I think there going to be allright. Its not a very big sub so they can drag it to shallower water where they can escape.

I cant help but recall the line in Hunt for Red October wherein the US Senator speaking to the Soviet Ambassador "Youve lost another submarine ?"

Ula Jolly · 08-05-05, 11:55 AM

The submarine was there as part of a naval exercise.
Seeing as Russia has learned from Kursk, help has already been requested from USA and other countries. I have good hopes of the crew making it out well.

Duncan Idaho · 08-05-05, 12:08 PM

I've been following this since the story broke here. I'm hoping for the best! I'm very impressed that the Russian's asked for assistance. In fact, I'm proud of them for that. The lives of their sailors should be paramount.

I'm not usually a praying man, but I am praying for these sailors, and their families.

SmokinTep · 08-05-05, 12:20 PM

Seems like they will be OK. I guess Russia didn't want to have another Kursk on their hands.

Kafka · 08-05-05, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokinTep

Seems like they will be OK. I guess Russia didn't want to have another Kursk on their hands.

my pessimistic view earlier stemmed exactly from what happened in the past - the Kursk incident. Not the same extreme circumstances, obviously, but nonetheless... I was just expecting the Russian govt. to let those poor chaps die. Fortunately they screamed for help this time. I'm glad they'll be ok.

Type941 · 08-05-05, 02:06 PM

I don't get the Kursk comparison!

One is a nuclear submarine with armed weapons, navy secrets and in proximity to Nato warships, sunk in a chain of unclear explosions. The other one is small research submersible (13m long), that got into a dangerous situation on the seabed, with 7 sailors and posses no real threat to national security if picked up by the US/UK or Japan. It's a no brainer there will be a request for help, because not only will it actually HELP, but also would make others say 'hey look at them, how brave that they asked for help, that's the spirit of partnership'. It's also not a 'fault' of the Russian Navy and in that sense, they don't look so bad as with Kursk.

To me, the only similarity between the Kursk tragedy and this one is that both are underwater vessels. But that's about it.

Probably such discussions took place many times before, but if a Nato sub was in same position as Kursk, there is no way they'd ask the Russians to help - it's just the whole thing would be handled much more gently PR-wise, but the outcome will be the same - only Nato would act and won't let the Russians near it.

SteamWake · 08-05-05, 02:07 PM

The russians attempt to attach a "tow line" has failed.

The Americans are rushing to the scene.

This one has yet to be resolved.

RAM · 08-05-05, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Type941

I don't get the Kursk comparison!

One is a nuclear submarine with armed weapons, navy secrets and in proximity to Nato warships, sunk in a chain of unclear explosions. The other one is small research submersible (13m long), that got into a dangerous situation on the seabed, with 7 sailors and posses no real threat to national security if picked up by the US/UK or Japan.

150 crew lives were lost when the Kursk sank. There was a chance to get them out had foreign assistance arrived on time.

It didn't arrive there because there was no call for help.

I don't get the Kursk comparison either...this time there are 7 sailors in serious trouble, back then there were 150 lives on danger. I am glad that Russia was reasonable this time. But with the Kurks they blooded their hands because a stupid ego-related decision wich made them think that calling for foreign help was equal to losing face. And in the end they not only lost face in a worse way than they would have, had they asked for help in time, the Kursk crew was lost too.

I don't care a bit about the "naval secrets", the egos, or the wishes to save face of a navy which can't even scrap their own rusted nuclear submarines and have to do it with foreign money and assistance because they can't do it on their own. They ask for help and a massive ammount of money to decomission their submarine fleet ,and they don't do it to save their own sailors' lifes?

Any "naval secrets" the kursk had on board could be kept secure by an adequate set of security measures. Those "naval secrets" are difficult to discover if all you're trying is to rescue a trapped crew anyway.

And in any case, I don't give a bloody cent for those "naval secrets" if I would have to pay with 150 lives of my nation's navy loyal sailors and officers. Russian government betrayed their own sailors, and basically robbed them of any hope of surviving they had. No naval secret is worth 150 lives, much less today (it's not like norway, UK or USA are going to declare war on the Russian federation tomorrow, isn't it?).

Glad this time the story doesn't repeat itself. I hope those men are rescued alive.

Duncan Idaho · 08-05-05, 02:20 PM

I do, to some extent, 'get' the comparison. Apparently this is a military vessel, and it was involved in military operations at the time of the accident. I would hazard a guess that the sub is manned by military personel. (Although it truly is just a guess).

Can't see why it matters either way, these are humans trapped down there, and they need help. What difference does it make who compares it to what? That's not the point of this issue at all, is it?

RAM · 08-05-05, 02:24 PM

maybe the language barrier didn't let me put my thoughts straight.

I think, like you do, that it makes no difference comparing one thing with another. Which is exactly the point: 150 lifes were lost aboard Kursk. I hope Putin and those who took the decission not to ask for help back then ,have called for assistance now because they learnt their lessons some years ago. Not because this time there are only 7 lifes to save aboard a technologically not-that-important vessel.

The Russian federation has called for foreign assistance this time, yes. That's what matters here, yes. They have done the right thing, yes. But lets not forget that had they done a similar thing when the Kursk sank, there could be a chance that those who perished on board would be living today. And that also matters here.

I really hope that if another "Kursk-like" incident happens in the future Russia will set aside any considerations about egos, secrets and other stupid (In today's world) considerations and put the task of saving the crews' life in the first priority.

Otherwise it means that 150 lifes were lost for nothing aboard the Kursk. And that would be YET another treason to them.

08-05-05, 10:53 AM	#1
Carcassonne Loader Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 82 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Russian Deep-Sea Vessel Stuck, Trapping 7 Sorry if this has been posted already... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164821,00.html

08-05-05, 11:15 AM	#3
Type941 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: U-52 Posts: 1,270 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=41213 Posted before on this forum, but general section. Whatever the agendas, I hope those guys make it safe out. PS> That's the spirit kafka. __________________ Sink the Bismarck SH3 Movie

08-05-05, 11:55 AM	#7
Ula Jolly Samurai Navy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 567 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The submarine was there as part of a naval exercise. Seeing as Russia has learned from Kursk, help has already been requested from USA and other countries. I have good hopes of the crew making it out well. __________________ I shall punish yee, landlubber! C'mere for spankings and popsicles!

08-05-05, 12:08 PM	#8
Duncan Idaho Marine Boy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In your baffles Posts: 201 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I've been following this since the story broke here. I'm hoping for the best! I'm very impressed that the Russian's asked for assistance. In fact, I'm proud of them for that. The lives of their sailors should be paramount. I'm not usually a praying man, but I am praying for these sailors, and their families. __________________ Idaho- -I like to play poker with Tarot cards. The other night I got a full house, and 4 people died.

08-05-05, 02:06 PM	#11
Type941 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: U-52 Posts: 1,270 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I don't get the Kursk comparison! One is a nuclear submarine with armed weapons, navy secrets and in proximity to Nato warships, sunk in a chain of unclear explosions. The other one is small research submersible (13m long), that got into a dangerous situation on the seabed, with 7 sailors and posses no real threat to national security if picked up by the US/UK or Japan. It's a no brainer there will be a request for help, because not only will it actually HELP, but also would make others say 'hey look at them, how brave that they asked for help, that's the spirit of partnership'. It's also not a 'fault' of the Russian Navy and in that sense, they don't look so bad as with Kursk. To me, the only similarity between the Kursk tragedy and this one is that both are underwater vessels. But that's about it. Probably such discussions took place many times before, but if a Nato sub was in same position as Kursk, there is no way they'd ask the Russians to help - it's just the whole thing would be handled much more gently PR-wise, but the outcome will be the same - only Nato would act and won't let the Russians near it. __________________ Sink the Bismarck SH3 Movie

08-05-05, 11:00 AM	#2
Kafka Sailor man Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Savannah USA Posts: 49 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Following story closely. Stuck at 190m, less than 20 hours of oxygen left, don't think they stand a chance.

08-05-05, 11:16 AM	#4
Carcassonne Loader Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 82 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	From MSNBC: Russian state TV: Rescue vessel towing mini-sub to shallower waters http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8833336/

08-05-05, 11:21 AM	#6
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Snagged on a fishing net in 620 feet of water. This is just bizzare. I have one question to ask...... Why is a 7 man "rescue" sub doing out there in 620 feet of water without evidently any support crew. I think there going to be allright. Its not a very big sub so they can drag it to shallower water where they can escape. I cant help but recall the line in Hunt for Red October wherein the US Senator speaking to the Soviet Ambassador "Youve lost another submarine ?"

08-05-05, 12:20 PM	#9
SmokinTep Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Suffolk, Virginia Posts: 1,027 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Seems like they will be OK. I guess Russia didn't want to have another Kursk on their hands.

08-05-05, 02:07 PM	#12
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	The russians attempt to attach a "tow line" has failed. The Americans are rushing to the scene. This one has yet to be resolved.

08-05-05, 02:20 PM	#14
Duncan Idaho Marine Boy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In your baffles Posts: 201 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I do, to some extent, 'get' the comparison. Apparently this is a military vessel, and it was involved in military operations at the time of the accident. I would hazard a guess that the sub is manned by military personel. (Although it truly is just a guess). Can't see why it matters either way, these are humans trapped down there, and they need help. What difference does it make who compares it to what? That's not the point of this issue at all, is it? __________________ Idaho- -I like to play poker with Tarot cards. The other night I got a full house, and 4 people died.

08-05-05, 02:24 PM	#15
RAM Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 130 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	maybe the language barrier didn't let me put my thoughts straight. I think, like you do, that it makes no difference comparing one thing with another. Which is exactly the point: 150 lifes were lost aboard Kursk. I hope Putin and those who took the decission not to ask for help back then ,have called for assistance now because they learnt their lessons some years ago. Not because this time there are only 7 lifes to save aboard a technologically not-that-important vessel. The Russian federation has called for foreign assistance this time, yes. That's what matters here, yes. They have done the right thing, yes. But lets not forget that had they done a similar thing when the Kursk sank, there could be a chance that those who perished on board would be living today. And that also matters here. I really hope that if another "Kursk-like" incident happens in the future Russia will set aside any considerations about egos, secrets and other stupid (In today's world) considerations and put the task of saving the crews' life in the first priority. Otherwise it means that 150 lifes were lost for nothing aboard the Kursk. And that would be YET another treason to them.