You only sleep twice

Skybird · 01-11-22, 09:28 AM

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...biphasic-sleep

After university, I worked as scientific assistant in a sleep laboratory for a bit more than half a year, I needed the money, had to overbridge some time, and the working time - nightshifts - met my biological inner clock perfectly, I am strongly a creature of the night, and I hate early mornings: I swithc of the light around 4 a.m., and sleep until 10-11 a.m. School, university and jobs in the first 45 years of my life, were not pkl,easant for me, in this regard: working day starting officially at 8a.m. is s little hell for me, sinc eI must raise even earlier, but I appreciate night shifts.

Many on my mother's family side ticked like this, were extremely night-active. My brandfather was a teacher, at that time kids were not rmeoved formt nheir fmaileis and place din state-run storage-facilties named schools, but school ended after the 6th hour, sometimes 7th, and that was it. He came back at 2 p.m., ate warm lunch - and then went to bed. He raised at around 10 p.m., did some stuff for school if need was given - and dissappeared for the night in his hobby cellar, working wiht woods, carving and turning it, building christmas pyramids and modelling on his hige miniature railroad. At 7 a.m. or so he came up again, had a coffee, and went to school. - The marriage was not the happiest one, for my grand mother was sleeping and awakening very "normally"...

My mum is a later-raiser, too, so was her sister, and her grandfather.

In the lat 90s, sleep research still accepted that beside the huge group of normal sleepers there were also "owls" (night people) and "larks" (early morning people). I have no more interest in these things and am not up to date, but it seems that over the past two decades this separation was given up by some researchers. I wonder whether that makes sense, because realising that there are small groups of people deviating from the norm and being very early or very late raisers from sleep indeed is an observation you can easily make everywhere, and I see no meaning in wanting to reject this.

I think the push for announcing all people are the same in their internal clock's timing is just another face of the modern drive to define all people as being the same in their individual needs, without much differences and instead all ticking by the same rythms, criteria, identity traits and so forth - features that are designed to make the "drones" that employed peole de facto are for the economy better fit into the needs of industrial demands and economically structured contexts. That is also the reason why we all wear watches. Non-industrialised non-specialised economic societies do not need these.

Until some years ago I also had an interesting ability. I could set an internal biological alarm clock that let me wake up to a wanted time right within a 2-3 minute window, say 9:45. No matter what time of day or night, I could wake up almost precisely at the wanted time, within 2-3 minutes. That was almost a bit eerie. Family said they could correct their watches by me awakening. And I do not mean that it was always the same time. I mean a randomly set time different on every opportunity. This phenomenon is sometimes reported in literature, but it seems to be the rarer the more precise the waker could awake at the target time. In the past ten years or so I have lost this ability.

Spoon 11th · 01-14-22, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I think the push for announcing all people are the same in their internal clock's timing is just another face of the modern drive to define all people as being the same in their individual needs, without much differences and instead all ticking by the same rythms, criteria, identity traits and so forth

Yeah it's all fake news, fake science, awfulness and just horribility.

Peter Attia has great discussions with Matthew Walker about all things sleep.

Link to part 1
https://peterattiamd.com/matthewwalker1/

Skybird · 01-14-22, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoon 11th

Yeah it's all fake news, fake science, awfulness and just horribility.

Why that animosity?

I referred to a simple fact, that is that societies change and cultures change due to trends dictated by chnaging needs and circumstances. In the medieval, the perception of time and "workflow" was different than in the industrialization. The industrial environment needs a very different time management, needs synchronized tacts and intervals, and therefore, timetables and the "tyranny"

of clocks was the logical consequence. Nobody in the medieval worked shifts of 9 hours length from exactly 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., instead one went with the daylight and the seasons, and the day-by-day changing needs. A travel was not timed for exact duration and ETAs, but it lasted as long as it lasted, and the length was estimated on the grounds of earlier experiences.

Today we must live by rules and timing intervals, by contexts and interfaces that are dictated by for example computers. The machine demands you to enter data and your demands in a certain formalized way, else it will not "comprehend" what you want it to do with it, or it will not even accept your input of data. These contexts feed back on your own way of working, and communicating, and finally: your thinking. We think differently today, than we did in the pre-computer age. We have made certain "anarchistic freedoms" in our way of being creative almost unthinkable.

Don't interpret something into my original post or into the BBC text that actually is not being said there.

mapuc · 01-14-22, 12:24 PM

Reading the first part was like reading my life in a nutshell.

Told once my doctor how I had huge problem sleeping when I was a kid, how I use to hear our clock on the wall in our living room strike 1 o´clock, 2 o´clock and sometimes 3 and 4 o´clock. How I was so tired in school.
Same as student.
Today I have free meeting at my job.

Forgot something
Said that I sleep like a baby if I sleep during daytime, I only wake when my toilet need watering.
She(my doctor) said that most likely my biological clock is out of order.

Except now. Since some month back I'm suffering from fatigue syndrome
Tired all the time- Even doing a little job like vacuum cleaning my living room would make me feel like I haven't slept for 3 days.

Markus

Jeff-Groves · 01-14-22, 01:58 PM

My job has me always on different time schedules.
Over the years I have adapted to very little sleep at times.
Sometimes less then 5 hours a night for days on end. I still awaken before any time I set my alarm for! I've driven 32 hours straight, went to sleep with alarm set for 4 hours, and woke up 5 minutes before the alarm so many times I just never worried about it or gave it a second thought.
I can stay awake all day after getting up at 7 AM then going to bed at 3 AM then still wake up before 8 AM because I know if I am to be called out for a job?
8 AM is when I'll get that call.

Skybird · 01-14-22, 03:27 PM

I know that feeling, waking up just minutes before a set time mark. But I ,lost that "ablity", perk, skill, whatever it is, over the past years.

Constantly changing sleeping patterns, like rotating shifts at work, can probably be a long-term health hazard, if the changes are too extreme. Especially the nervous system can be shpwign symptoms of many divers elinds after many years, even decades. This can further affect the immune system. Everything gets out of tact, out of synch. Its not before much later that the consequences show - and then are extremely difficult to be associated with what originally has caused them.

So I think its mor eharmelss to have extrnmeely deviating sleeping-waking patterns, but being constant in these, then to always have to alter these patterns and then very signficantly so. Keep a rythm,. however that rythm may be for your idnovidual nature - but if possible avoid to constantly change that rythm dramatically.

There is also an association with neurotransmitter levels going frenzy if these patterns get notoriously altered, and drastically. Lats b ut niot least, sleep is for allowing the brain to detox. It shrfinks a bit, so that the liquor inside the skull can easier wash around the brain and wash away the sub-molecular chemical "waste" from neutrotransmitters build and used over the waking phase, and then not getting properly re-synthesized. Itsnot so much muscular regeneraiton that forces us to sleep, for that, just resting would be good enough.

01-11-22, 09:28 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,683 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	You only sleep twice https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...biphasic-sleep After university, I worked as scientific assistant in a sleep laboratory for a bit more than half a year, I needed the money, had to overbridge some time, and the working time - nightshifts - met my biological inner clock perfectly, I am strongly a creature of the night, and I hate early mornings: I swithc of the light around 4 a.m., and sleep until 10-11 a.m. School, university and jobs in the first 45 years of my life, were not pkl,easant for me, in this regard: working day starting officially at 8a.m. is s little hell for me, sinc eI must raise even earlier, but I appreciate night shifts. Many on my mother's family side ticked like this, were extremely night-active. My brandfather was a teacher, at that time kids were not rmeoved formt nheir fmaileis and place din state-run storage-facilties named schools, but school ended after the 6th hour, sometimes 7th, and that was it. He came back at 2 p.m., ate warm lunch - and then went to bed. He raised at around 10 p.m., did some stuff for school if need was given - and dissappeared for the night in his hobby cellar, working wiht woods, carving and turning it, building christmas pyramids and modelling on his hige miniature railroad. At 7 a.m. or so he came up again, had a coffee, and went to school. - The marriage was not the happiest one, for my grand mother was sleeping and awakening very "normally"... My mum is a later-raiser, too, so was her sister, and her grandfather. In the lat 90s, sleep research still accepted that beside the huge group of normal sleepers there were also "owls" (night people) and "larks" (early morning people). I have no more interest in these things and am not up to date, but it seems that over the past two decades this separation was given up by some researchers. I wonder whether that makes sense, because realising that there are small groups of people deviating from the norm and being very early or very late raisers from sleep indeed is an observation you can easily make everywhere, and I see no meaning in wanting to reject this. I think the push for announcing all people are the same in their internal clock's timing is just another face of the modern drive to define all people as being the same in their individual needs, without much differences and instead all ticking by the same rythms, criteria, identity traits and so forth - features that are designed to make the "drones" that employed peole de facto are for the economy better fit into the needs of industrial demands and economically structured contexts. That is also the reason why we all wear watches. Non-industrialised non-specialised economic societies do not need these. Until some years ago I also had an interesting ability. I could set an internal biological alarm clock that let me wake up to a wanted time right within a 2-3 minute window, say 9:45. No matter what time of day or night, I could wake up almost precisely at the wanted time, within 2-3 minutes. That was almost a bit eerie. Family said they could correct their watches by me awakening. And I do not mean that it was always the same time. I mean a randomly set time different on every opportunity. This phenomenon is sometimes reported in literature, but it seems to be the rarer the more precise the waker could awake at the target time. In the past ten years or so I have lost this ability. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-14-22, 12:24 PM	#4
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,543 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Reading the first part was like reading my life in a nutshell. Told once my doctor how I had huge problem sleeping when I was a kid, how I use to hear our clock on the wall in our living room strike 1 o´clock, 2 o´clock and sometimes 3 and 4 o´clock. How I was so tired in school. Same as student. Today I have free meeting at my job. Forgot something Said that I sleep like a baby if I sleep during daytime, I only wake when my toilet need watering. She(my doctor) said that most likely my biological clock is out of order. Except now. Since some month back I'm suffering from fatigue syndrome Tired all the time- Even doing a little job like vacuum cleaning my living room would make me feel like I haven't slept for 3 days. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat Last edited by mapuc; 01-14-22 at 12:36 PM.

01-14-22, 03:27 PM	#6
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,683 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I know that feeling, waking up just minutes before a set time mark. But I ,lost that "ablity", perk, skill, whatever it is, over the past years. Constantly changing sleeping patterns, like rotating shifts at work, can probably be a long-term health hazard, if the changes are too extreme. Especially the nervous system can be shpwign symptoms of many divers elinds after many years, even decades. This can further affect the immune system. Everything gets out of tact, out of synch. Its not before much later that the consequences show - and then are extremely difficult to be associated with what originally has caused them. So I think its mor eharmelss to have extrnmeely deviating sleeping-waking patterns, but being constant in these, then to always have to alter these patterns and then very signficantly so. Keep a rythm,. however that rythm may be for your idnovidual nature - but if possible avoid to constantly change that rythm dramatically. There is also an association with neurotransmitter levels going frenzy if these patterns get notoriously altered, and drastically. Lats b ut niot least, sleep is for allowing the brain to detox. It shrfinks a bit, so that the liquor inside the skull can easier wash around the brain and wash away the sub-molecular chemical "waste" from neutrotransmitters build and used over the waking phase, and then not getting properly re-synthesized. Itsnot so much muscular regeneraiton that forces us to sleep, for that, just resting would be good enough. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-14-22, 01:58 PM	#5
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,654 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	My job has me always on different time schedules. Over the years I have adapted to very little sleep at times. Sometimes less then 5 hours a night for days on end. I still awaken before any time I set my alarm for! I've driven 32 hours straight, went to sleep with alarm set for 4 hours, and woke up 5 minutes before the alarm so many times I just never worried about it or gave it a second thought. I can stay awake all day after getting up at 7 AM then going to bed at 3 AM then still wake up before 8 AM because I know if I am to be called out for a job? 8 AM is when I'll get that call.