I think this was a first (for me) for crewman to do this. anyone else?

[Bubblehead1980]

August 1943
USS Tambor SS 198

Dunkers Derp Area

TMO 2.5 w custom mods


August 22-23 engaged in three attacks one two convoys...one attack on Southbound convoy (likely to Truk) and two on a northbound convoy. First on 22 August was night surface attack, sunk 11808 ton tanker, forced to dive when a previously unseen chidori put spotlight on me, firing (missed) preventing a surface escape. A 6 1/2 hour depth charge attack followed with little break. Tambor was pushed to 500 feet.


Followed up attack that afternoon after an end around sunk a 7000 ton SEIA MARU. The DC attack was just an determined, assumed to be the Chidori and the Type A (external camera off, basing off previous observations) .

Pushed to 530 feet to try and get under their sonar and charges, it seemed we had done just that but during what first seemed like a run in that was off course, escort laid a pattern, and two close charges shook the boat and caused heavy damage.

Major damage was flooding in engine rooms, trim pump and hydraulic pump damaged, aft battery damage, and assorted minor damage throughout boat. DC party went into action and stopped the flooding, but the compartment had a lot of water in it, would take time to pump out. Trim pump damaged, boat was difficult to control between this and the flooding. Tambor at one point was at 571 feet, likely near crush depth for this class of boat, it was a fight to keep it from sinking deeper. Plus battery, damaged and having to be used at high speeds to compensate for flooding, was down to 41 percent. Meanwhile attacks continued.



Eventually, water was pumped out and after 9 hours under attack, escorts went away. We surfaced after 11 hours under. Checking on crew status, noticed a lot of minor injuries in engine rooms and morale status of two crewman as "shaken". I moved them to the crew berthing and replaced.


On 23 August found a northbound convoy and attacked, sinking a large ship. A vicious counter attack followed...no serious damage as before but boat was under for 6 1/2 hours with not let up (I stayed up way too late trying to get to safe point could leave it lol) . Finally shaking the escorts an surfacing that night.

I noticed while one crewman healed and went from shaken to normal, the other had now progressed to "manic" and his health went to 50 percent. I left him in the crew berthing. I left the sim running with boat at 350 feet for a day of rest" and went to bed. Jumped on a few minutes ago, crewman health was at 3 percent and listed as "manic" and a few minutes ago, his health went to 0, he passed.


In all the years of SH 4 never had this happen, sure I would have noticed. Crewman slowly died in that manner. Seen morale as manic one other time, just wondering if anyone has seen this or noticed before?

Also shocked as it was an experienced Petty Officer 1st Class, been on boat for 6 out of ten patrols. Interesting dynamic to the sim.

[Arlo]

First I've ever heard of. He went crazy then died. Of course, I think he had other wounds, as well. Then I gotta wonder. Burial at sea or do you haul him around for the rest of the patrol and then take him back to base?

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Arlo

First I've ever heard of. He went crazy then died. Of course, I think he had other wounds, as well. Then I gotta wonder. Burial at sea or do you haul him around for the rest of the patrol and then take him back to base?

Well, there is no way to do a "burial at sea" so he stays in the crew berthing in the sim until back in port, then remove him from roster. If you put him at one of the stations where crew are rendered in 3d, they collapse on the floor.

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Well, there is no way to do a "burial at sea" so he stays in the crew berthing in the sim until back in port, then remove him from roster. If you put him at one of the stations where crew are rendered in 3d, they collapse on the floor.

If.. I am recalling rightly, SH3... did have a means to bury the dead, at sea... I believe. Has been a while since I had any dead on board... so... I will... say, that My memory may be a bit... foggy on that.

A shame that SH4 (which as I understand it, is based on the bones of SH3 (roughly...) did NOT include that, as a viable function...



M. M.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Mad Mardigan

If.. I am recalling rightly, SH3... did have a means to bury the dead, at sea... I believe. Has been a while since I had any dead on board... so... I will... say, that My memory may be a bit... foggy on that.

A shame that SH4 (which as I understand it, is based on the bones of SH3 (roughly...) did NOT include that, as a viable function...



M. M.

Interesting. Definitely something we should have in SH 4.

Apparently, there is a hidden/disabled abandon ship feature in SH 4. Twice this has happened....I am in the middle of a attack and my fingers slip off he key when trying to give command to raise/lower scope, change speed and I heard "abandon ship" uttered by the watch officer. Nothing happened, but he said it. First time I thought I misunderstood, but second time was a few months later and heard it clear. Not sure of exact key combo to recreate it at will.

Among several key things left out by devs that should have been in SH 4 is abandon ship and burial at sea. I recall in stock how ridiculous it was to get your rudder destroyer by deprh charge and were stuck, since they did not bother to give us independent engine control (or even four actual engines as fleetboats had, plus the aux diesel!) so could not steer. Lose props, engines, or rudders, game over. Carried over into mods. Only fix is to make the rudder etc essentially invulnerable. In my revised damage model, the rudder, engines, props can be damaged, but rudder, and one of the props and engines have enough HP assigned they are highly unlikely to ever be destroyed. Where as others could be, although they are tough, as this equipment was in real life.

It is interesting , the effects damage has on the sub. For example, my port prop shaft was nearly destroyed one patrol, two really close depth charges got it. Took a week to be fully repaired, but even then, sub could never reach max surfaced speed on surface, always around 18 knots or less instead of 20. Makes sense, but wish the DC screen was a bit more informative . Also noticed my sub was noisier even at silent running. Wish the noise was audible to player, simulate the prop shaft squeaking etc due to damage when knocked out of alignment.

Traveller created the SOS/Rescue mod, which I am shocked has never been implemented into the big mods.

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Interesting.


Among several key things left out by devs that should have been in SH 4 is abandon ship and burial at sea.

I am about 95% sure that I can mod them in!!

You can adapt the torpedo tube and dive plane animations to pretty much anything you want - while working on Wolves of the Kaiser I was able to use one stock animation to mimic the raising/lowering of the big radio masts that existed on old-fashioned subs.

With additions to the sub's .dat file and fiddling with animations, you could add a torpedo tube open animation on a sub to represent the abandon ship process - complete with as many crew as the game can support. Same with a funeral ceremony for whenever the crew died. You wouldn't even need to do any new key mapping etc - you would simply select the dummy torpedo tube and open/close it to initiate or stop the animation...by pressing "Q" after selection! And it would not be visible when not needed.

The cons -

-1) The option would always be available whenever you want, but of course if you have discipline you will only use it when appropriate.

-2) I am not 100% sure I can design a custom button in the SH4 interface to represent these options.

-3) There is no way to link the animations to actual instances of ship damage or crew death - again, you'd need to be disciplined and only use it when appropriate.

-4) It would make the torpedo launching interface slightly more cluttered.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

August 1943
I noticed while one crewman healed and went from shaken to normal, the other had now progressed to "manic" and his health went to 50 percent. I left him in the crew berthing. I left the sim running with boat at 350 feet for a day of rest" and went to bed. Jumped on a few minutes ago, crewman health was at 3 percent and listed as "manic" and a few minutes ago, his health went to 0, he passed.


In all the years of SH 4 never had this happen, sure I would have noticed. Crewman slowly died in that manner. Seen morale as manic one other time, just wondering if anyone has seen this or noticed before?

Also shocked as it was an experienced Petty Officer 1st Class, been on boat for 6 out of ten patrols. Interesting dynamic to the sim.

you stated that your boat was at an extreme depth and you hit the sack for the night.
when you returned several hours later what was the oxygen level in the boat?
more than likely, it was not very good and that probably contributed to the decreasing health of the injured crewman.

as for the "morale", i believe that is a vestige setting from SH3 and like Intelligence and awards and a few other variables, it does not play an active part in SH4.

a crewman's rank is not a factor in his ability to survive. it is the extent of his injuries and the O2 level that caused his death. a flooded/flooding compartment will also factor into health/death.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

you stated that your boat was at an extreme depth and you hit the sack for the night.
when you returned several hours later what was the oxygen level in the boat?
more than likely, it was not very good and that probably contributed to the decreasing health of the injured crewman.

as for the "morale", i believe that is a vestige setting from SH3 and like Intelligence and awards and a few other variables, it does not play an active part in SH4.

a crewman's rank is not a factor in his ability to survive. it is the extent of his injuries and the O2 level that caused his death. a flooded/flooding compartment will also factor into health/death.

The CO2 level was not high (forget exact number as was not worried) , normal for a 8-12 hour day of submerged patrol. I will clarify, I had managed to surface after slipped away for escorts and been surfaced a while before diving for a "rest day", so after some respite. At dawn ( in the sim) submerged boat to 350, and I went to bed. Came back roughly 11 hours later in real time. Possible the contributed though.

Well I figured his rank and experience would prevent him from breaking down mentally , going to "shaken" and then "manic". Since other times have seen these changes in moral were usually inexperienced seaman.

What caught me was how his initial injuries did not see that bad, like others his health was high, but his morale was shaken, then his health kept declining in aftermath until he died. Morale never changed from manic.

[propbeanie]

I have had similar in TMO, and I laid it to a head injury, or other internal injury that kept the character's health on the decline. We had similar in early renditions of FotRSU, just after the FOTRS conversions, and no amount of moving the characters helped. This is where the Pharmacist's Mate position came back into the FotRSU mod. I forget what CapnScurvy did, but you are supposedly limited to one on your boat. The best way to do it, is to move the injured person into a "crew's rest" position, such as what we call the Watch Crew Berthing in FotRSU, and put the Pharmacist's Mate in there with the injured character. This will usually, but not always help... I had one "fellow" who was injured during a depth charging after roughly a week's time on patrol, and he kept declining over the course of the next week. I finally moved him to the "sick bay" with the Pharmacist's Mate, as above, and continued on patrol for another two weeks. We went back into Fremantle, and while entering the harbor, but not quite close enough for the "End Patrol?" pop-up, and the dude died... Three weeks he was injured, and then dies on me while coming back in... sheesh. - a flagrant violation of direct orders.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I have had similar in TMO, and I laid it to a head injury, or other internal injury that kept the character's health on the decline. We had similar in early renditions of FotRSU, just after the FOTRS conversions, and no amount of moving the characters helped. This is where the Pharmacist's Mate position came back into the FotRSU mod. I forget what CapnScurvy did, but you are supposedly limited to one on your boat. The best way to do it, is to move the injured person into a "crew's rest" position, such as what we call the Watch Crew Berthing in FotRSU, and put the Pharmacist's Mate in there with the injured character. This will usually, but not always help... I had one "fellow" who was injured during a depth charging after roughly a week's time on patrol, and he kept declining over the course of the next week. I finally moved him to the "sick bay" with the Pharmacist's Mate, as above, and continued on patrol for another two weeks. We went back into Fremantle, and while entering the harbor, but not quite close enough for the "End Patrol?" pop-up, and the dude died... Three weeks he was injured, and then dies on me while coming back in... sheesh. - a flagrant violation of direct orders.

Adds an element of realism from my perspective. I'll keep an eye out for a 'pharmacist mate' to become available between patrols. I'm guessing the renown cost would be high (even though all boats had one, if I'm not mistaken - probably indicates 'one hell of a' PM ... like the one that performed an appendectomy at sea).

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Arlo

Adds an element of realism from my perspective. I'll keep an eye out for a 'pharmacist mate' to become available between patrols. I'm guessing the renown cost would be high (even though all boats had one, if I'm not mistaken - probably indicates 'one hell of a' PM ... like the one that performed an appendectomy at sea).

i hate to be a Negative Nancy, Arlo, but you have as much chance of seeing a PM in the available talent pool as a snowball's chance in Houston, in July.
Only the top six ranks (E7-9, O1-3) are eligible for ONE special ability and the selection has 21 specials to choose from.
then there is the chance factor of even getting one. for the CPO's you have a 15% chance and that is when you promote an E6 to Chief. for the officers the chances range from 30% for Ensign to 35% for JG to 100% for an LT.
so....the odds are 1:21 for a Medic multiplied by the chances for each rank: CPO .15 x .0476 = .007% chance of getting a PM.
if you want a PM, wait until you are in port and edit the ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc file, choose a crewman and assign the special ability.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

August 1943

In all the years of SH 4 never had this happen, sure I would have noticed. Crewman slowly died in that manner. Seen morale as manic one other time, just wondering if anyone has seen this or noticed before?

Also shocked as it was an experienced Petty Officer 1st Class, been on boat for 6 out of ten patrols. Interesting dynamic to the sim.

i know it has been several months since this occurred, but, by chance, do you remember which torpedo room position went manic?

i have a hunch (no Young Frankenstein references, PB) that it was probably the third section leader in the aft torpedo room.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

i know it has been several months since this occurred, but, by chance, do you remember which torpedo room position went manic?

i have a hunch (no Young Frankenstein references, PB) that it was probably the third section leader in the aft torpedo room.

I am not 100 percent sure but believe that is correct. Please elaborate on your hunch?

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco View Post
i know it has been several months since this occurred, but, by chance, do you remember which torpedo room position went manic?
i have a hunch (no Young Frankenstein references, PB) that it was probably the third section leader in the aft torpedo room.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I am not 100 percent sure but believe that is correct. Please elaborate on your hunch?

i think that there are certain positions(billets) that are pre-disposed for certain actions and reactions. i think that they are hard-coded in the injury subroutines or have a higher percentage of probability of injury in some internal table. i think this because it seems that the same guys are always hurt first and the worst.

one of them is the 3rd section Aft Torpedo Room. he is pre-disposed to be the first one injured when that room is attacked. another position is the 1st section of the Command Room.

i do not think there is anything we can do about it but play, watch, and learn.