Nordstream

[Rockstar]

Tensions have flared up between the US and Germany over the construction of Nord Stream 2 pipeline – a 1,225-km long ‘offshore’ pipeline constructed between western Russia and Germany. It runs parallel to the existing Nord Stream 1 pipeline across the Baltic Sea. US concerns with the pipeline are to do with the growing European dependence on Russian natural gas exports and the latter’s propensity to use energy as a geoeconomic weapon against its customers. Moreover, the pipeline is likely to undermine the current position of Ukraine as the main transit route for Russian gas to Europe. Therefore, the US is concerned that the pipeline would negate the only geopolitical leverage that Ukraine has over Russia. It is also estimated that Ukraine will be losing more than $2 billion in annual transit fees if the Nord Stream 2 pipeline goes on-stream. For all these reasons, the US has imposed sanctions on the companies involved in the pipeline construction in order to interrupt the project.

https://www.e-ir.info/2020/08/12/opi...2-geopolitics/

[Kapitan]

Well the Europeans have two choices neither they want to take, either pipe in Russian gas or ship it from the Gulf states and risk shortages.

In reality Russia has the largest proven natural gas deposits in the world and even the USA has and in some cases still does import gas and oil from Russia, not to mention Russia is an OPEC member.

Ukraine is its own worst enemy in some cases they simply just want to live on western handouts, they had so much going for them in the 1990's that could have built up into what Poland or Hungary is today yet their political class squandered just about everything in a true soviet style and now they are playing the poor many of Europe.

And before anyone asks yes I have been to the Ukraine (many times) yes I have seen how they do business and yes I have employed many Ukrainians.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

Well the Europeans have two choices neither they want to take, either pipe in Russian gas or ship it from the Gulf states and risk shortages.

In reality Russia has the largest proven natural gas deposits in the world and even the USA has and in some cases still does import gas and oil from Russia, not to mention Russia is an OPEC member.

Ukraine is its own worst enemy in some cases they simply just want to live on western handouts, they had so much going for them in the 1990's that could have built up into what Poland or Hungary is today yet their political class squandered just about everything in a true soviet style and now they are playing the poor many of Europe.

And before anyone asks yes I have been to the Ukraine (many times) yes I have seen how they do business and yes I have employed many Ukrainians.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/...y/bloc-2c.html


https://www.cleanenergywire.org/fact...wer-mix-charts


Germany's threat to energy production is not so much a shortage in oil or gas imports, but cloudy days and still air. We lack the huge forest and small population of the Swedes and the huge water-powerplants capacities of the Austrians and their Alps.

Also, the systematic destruction of dark&cold-start-capable reserve powerplants to me a an absolutely major concern (thinking of a nation-wide days-lasting power blackout).


That we close down nuclear power and handed away German expertise in nuclear powerplant design, is one of the biggest failures of the Merkel. Unforgivable. And costly in compensations to the industry.

[Skybird]

The Us has very strong own financial interests to sell its own gas with itw frakcing industry seriuously struggling and in parts already collapsing, 20 bancruptcies in one years speak volumes.

The Europpean posiiton is quite clear, and I repeat: the European position. The Americna claims are rated both in Berlin and in brussel as violation of internaiton law. With the ecpetion of Poland and the Baltic states, EU members have given their green light to Germany.

The Poles are angry because Germany counters Polands own project of using the EU pipeline grid project of "Baltic Pipe" for transporting Norwegian gas via pipe from Denmark to Poland, so that then Poland could enjoy transit fees and control over the gas when it gets distrubuted further into Europe. It puts Poland into a storng position against Brussels (nice opporutnity for the US to practice divide et impera). The idea of the Polish and American planners was and still is to enlarge this grid with terminals for US gas tankers landing their gas in danish terminals where it then gets processed and fed into Baltic Pipe'S pipelines, and to Poland.

The US does not tell the full story. They have all their own horses in the race. That they are oh so concerned for European security, is just a strawman argument.

economically, the American offers never were competitive. The gas they hope to deliver additionally, is from frackign and thus is heavily intoxicated with chemicals of which it must be purified bewfore further processed. This additional work needed to the already additional energetic expenses to cool the gas down so that it is liquid and actually can be transported via ship. ecologically, American liquid gas via ship is a very bad thing. The quality is also bad, compared to Russian or Norwegian gas, but the Norwegians are set to shut down their business in the Northsea in 2050. End of 2019, US price demands for their gas laid 30-40% over world market averages. So their offer is not only for bad quality , but it is hopelessly overpriced as well. Which explains why their additional selling desires are met with zero interest amongst possible European customers. We just tried, and failed to find any demand. There is none.

Thats why the US has chosen to play the bullying card. Selling by force, so to speak.

Problem is: Brussels and Berlin have learned some important lessons in the past four years. The US is not being trusted anymore. Also, the EUropean energy mix has been diversified more than the Us likes to talk about. Russian gas losses can cause problems - but they cannot gag down supply security and existentially threaten Europe anymore, even more with renewables slowly but constantly growing in share.

Its worth noting that the US accuses the Russians

- of economic blackmailing that Russia has not done to Western Europe in the past even at the height of the cold war: they have always honoured their trade agreements,

- while Washington itself already practically acts the way it accuses the Russians of wanting to do in the future. All the blackmailing and threatening and intimidating that the Rssians are accused of for doing in the future - the US already carries ou right now.

Legal experts of the EU as well as the German Bundestag have rated the US behaviour as violation of international law.

If Washington wnats the Ukraine to get money, they can send dollars instead of expecting us to pay Euros for them.

And Poland pisses Germany at every opportunity and plays the Nazi card several times per year, it takes more money from the EU (and Germany) then the next 3 net receivers alltogether. So why would I care for the, quite the oppopsite: I rather prefer us to be able to put the thumb on the pipe flow, than them.

Finally it is to be said that in Europe giovenrment have started to relaise that the Ameeicna focus has started to shift away from Eruope already longer time agao, already under Clinton. Obama also has an amazoin lack of deeper interest into Europe. The focus moves towards China, and that means Europe becomes less relevant fo Washington.

[Rockstar]

As for Poland's opinions about its neighbors I'm sure it does get old but can anyone really blame them? As you say they've been bullied by both the Soviet Union and Germany even long before Nazis showed up. Nordstream2 isn't anything new, Poland knew this was coming 15 years ago long and didnt like it then either. Long before anyone accused them as undeserving because they are 'far right'. But Germany did it anyways and as you say bullied its neighbors and took what they wanted. Regardless of the reasons nobody should be shocked when they get called names or when a nationalist movement rises in Poland.

Its amusing as hell watching European States scramble for positions of power, stabbing each other in the back and making treaties with once arch enemies as it reorganizes itself. All the while trumpeting how wonderful it is to be in the Union! The U.K. got smart and back stepped itself right out of that mess. lol

[Skybird]

The last few witnesses of that time on all sides are currently dying out.

Lets put it this way: there is no Polish man or woman who is to put claim agaiunst me of my mum or my father, or 99,99% if not more of the Germans alive today (one quarter of them now with "migration background, btw).As well as nobody of toda'Ys lv89ng Poles can accuse almost nobody of today'S living Germans of having done anything to them, ever. What generations before that did: let it be a thing between the now dead.

I never felt any obligation to apologize myself to anyone for thignb sthta came to an end a quarter of a century befor emy birth, three years before the birth of my mother, and ended at a time when my father was a one-year old.

You see, the Polish attacks are jjst fake moral arguments. They want more money once again. Legally, all treaties and obligations agreed to by Germany, have been honoured. Ther eis not a simplke open bill, and that is true fore Greece as well. Its all about trying to milk the stupid Germans more. Like Polland and Hungary have stopped to block the eU on climate deal once Poland got promised additional money.

Its politics, and that means its never about morals, but always about moneymoneymoney. And power, of course.

[Kapitan]

Unfortunately this is the reality of the EU and the reason why I don't support it as you note Skybird there is a lot of infighting and blaming Germany, I too Blame Germany for somethings some policies that came from the EU and forced through directly enhanced the German economy the common steel policy for one this lead to a massive decline in the UK Steel industry.

The Current EU just wants to be one country with each country being a "state" similar to the USA style, but each "state" will be monoeconomised exactly like how the Soviet union tried to do.

And for me no thank you I am glad I voted to leave and I fully stand by my vote and i would not change it, and I truly do hope that I get to see the break up of the EU in my life time.

[Rockstar]

Transcript of above video from 2011 (yes that's 19 years ago)



https://worldview.stratfor.com/artic...l-bailout-vote

The German population is a little skittish on what is going on with the eurozone debt situation right now and something that the German government has yet to do is sit down, address the population, explain exactly what is at stake and why the Germans are doing, why the German government is doing what it is doing.

The problem is you cannot have that conversation in modern Germany. Ultimately the eurozone debt package, this EFSF-2 as it is being called, is about making sure that Germany has full control over the bailout mechanics. This is to give Germany the type of political control that they have sought for the last three hundred years of European history.

How do Germans have a public conversation with themselves about dominating Europe? That is a problem.

Its not a problem you just completely avoid the conversation by accusing the other guy of "strangling the German businessman", being far right nationalists (Poland) or lazy (Greece). Ol' Joe Goebbels would be proud.