Most accurate Targeting method?

CassiousClay · 12-10-20, 03:08 AM

What is the most accurate targeting method we can use? Is there one that's guaranteed to hit every time?

derstosstrupp · 12-10-20, 06:42 AM

A shot is only as good as the underlying data - AOB, speed, and range. However, some approaches are better than others. Assuming you reasonably accurately determine AOB and speed, you can all but eliminate range by turning so that the gyro angle of the shot is near zero, in practice maybe within 20 degrees of your bow. This is what you should strive to achieve. Then all you need is an eyeballed, rough range at best.

Also strive to get below 1000 m. This mitigates the effect of AOB and speed errors. For example, at 1000 m and a 90 degree approach, you’re allowed up to a knot of speed error and 10 degrees of AOB error.

So in summary:
Approach the target roughly perpendicularly to under 1000 m (but not below 300!) and set yourself up so that the gyro angle is near zero at the shot. This will eliminate range as a source of error, and minimize the impact of possible errors in other data.

Here is one of my videos demonstrating these concepts:

CassiousClay · 12-10-20, 10:46 PM

I've been attempting the practice session in the Historical Missions Menu for TDC. In that scenario the target ship is always within 1000m to 800m or less but more than 300 by the time I get everything done and shoot.

I figured out how to launch TDW's tutorial text with automation. It's impossible to follow because the instructions aren't very detailed or accurate. And, of course, the game is buggy as hell. For example when the tutorial text says to draw a line with the ruler through the ship from the last point marked (one of the X's we used to figure out the speed) when I try to do that it's impossible to do and extremely irritating because when I draw the line to the edge of the map it doesn't reach anywhere near where my sub is and when I try to move the map with the arrow keys the crew changes the rudder angle, starts the engines, and starts moving the sub changing position which throws all the calculations I did previously off. Then the tool disappears. The tool is still active but it won't let me draw on the map.
VERY FRUSTRATING. Not helping. lol

Because of the game doing that it's impossible for me to draw a course line through the target with the ruler or use the protractor to draw a 90° angle reference to follow and position my ship with. I can't do it because the game doesn't let me.

The automation tutorial text also says to get the speed by timing it for 5 minutes. By the time the 5 minutes is up the target ship is either right on 90° and I don't have time to fire in time, or it's past the port side of my sub well out of the zone where it's possible for a torpedo to hit it.

The attack disk is confusing and doesn't seem accurate. I don't have the patience to sit through watching every second of an hour long video that's mostly the author chatting about everything and anything else other than how to use the attack disk or whatever they're attempting to explain.
It's possible I've watched every TDC video there is on youtube by now and none of them have helped. They've either annoyed, irritated, or caused more confusion because:

- they conflict and contradict each other with the information they share / how to do it. One person will say "do this" another will say "don't do that, there's no need to". One person will use the attack disk, another doesn't use it at all. Same with the RAOBF one will use it another will not.

That only adds to confusion and frustration.

- what they're doing in the video doesn't match what's on my screen. Even in the same exact scenario / mission.

I haven't been able to learn from videos because of that.

derstosstrupp · 12-11-20, 06:19 AM

You can zoom out on the map. Click to place the ruler where you want, mouse wheel out. WASD to move.

The speed timing doesn’t need to be for 5 minutes. Minute or 2 is probably fine. An easy way to get speed also is to point your bow in front of the target, your scope to 0 bearing and wait til his bow crosses the wire, starting the stopwatch. When the stern crosses, stop the time. Take target length / seconds * 1.94 for his speed.

Attack disc is accurate. You just need to learn it. Check my channel for the slide rule series.

These things have a steep learning curve requiring patience. My “chatty” video is long but it covers EXACTLY what to do to sink a ship. Granted it’s without map contacts which it sounds like you are using to learn and that’s fine. That just makes it that much easier for you.

Maybe at this point be less concerned about targeting methods and more about getting comfortable with the interface. Then return to targeting. One step at a time. I for example use a pretty standard TWOS setup so what you see on my screen should align with what you see.

I might also point you to the how-to thread in the SH5 area - have you used that?

CassiousClay · 12-11-20, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

You can zoom out on the map. Click to place the ruler where you want, mouse wheel out.

Attack disc is accurate. You just need to learn it. Check my channel for the slide rule series.

These things have a steep learning curve requiring patience. My “chatty” video is long but it covers EXACTLY what to do to sink a ship. Granted it’s without map contacts which it sounds like you are using to learn and that’s fine. That just makes it that much easier for you.

Maybe at this point be less concerned about targeting methods and more about getting comfortable with the interface. Then return to targeting. One step at a time. I for example use a pretty standard TWOS setup so what you see on my screen should align with what you see.

I might also point you to the how-to thread in the SH5 area - have you used that?

Thank you very much!

Yes. I've seen and read the SH5 how-to thread. Letter for letter and I've used both the browsers text search feature and the search feature here on the forums to try and find the tutorials I need to watch or read to learn everything. As I said I'm getting confused because of how different persons preferences on how they do things conflict one another with another persons preference who's taken the time to share a tutorial. All appreciated! Very much!

I've currently moved on, for now, to SH3 (GWX Gold) and like it a lot better. I have SH5 TWoS to flip to when I finish or get bored with it.

I predict I will get frustrated again with not knowing how to do things, especially targeting. If I can't target I can't sink ships = I can't complete missions as I think I should with a positive score other than the points we get for just surviving and completing it.

I will check out the rest of your channel. I already have been surfing your SH videos, even before you answered here. Please consider making playlists if you will. Much easier to find what we're trying to find that way when we find your channel.

SH3 seems to run and work so much better than SH5. I'm having a blast jammin out to the gramaphone as I'm on my way to die :P hahahaha
Hoping I manage to finally sink my first ship on a mission this time. We'll see!
I think this mission requires me to at least sink one merchant ship on the patrol. The last mission I did let me complete it without sinking any.

I only ran in to one contact that I lost the contact of. I couldn't figure out how to plot an intercept course to it to even attempt shooting at it. It was behind me and 8km away. Lost contact by the time I figured out how to draw a 90° attack plan and get my ship going the right direction toward it.
Noobnees. Time heals!

Drakken · 12-11-20, 01:03 PM

Are you playing with map contacts update on? I'd advise that you practice with these on first to learn the basics. There's no shame in baby steps. Another advantage of playing with map updates on is that you can actually see the target and the torpedo's projected course on the attack map.

When you feel comfortable and reliably sink targets with updates on, then you can then turn those off.

1. Speed: The cornerstone of any firing solution. Unless you're spotted or she starts zig-zagging, it is the only data point that remains constant throughout the attack. Practice by using the map to mark the target's distance travelled in 3:15 minutes, and compare with other speed acquisition methods as you practice. I used to check the speed 2-3 times with different methods, but the constant bearing method and matching the target's course and speed are the historical ones (and quite easy to learn).

2. AOB: Trace the target's course on the map with the protractor, then create an angle from his middle to your bow. That's the AOB. Eyeball it, practice with the Attack disk to match both your and her course, her bearing, and the AOB. You could also use also a visual chart to eyeball and compare with the target's angle. Keep in mind that sharper the AOB is, the easier it is to eyeball; example, it is much easier to distinguish a 10- from a 20-degree AOB than a 60- from a 75-degree AOB.

3. Range: Measure range with a ruler on the map, then practice either with the stadimeter or, if you can use it, learn to handle the RAOBF with the tick marks. It may look complicated at first, but when you get the basics it becomes very easy to use. The shortest the range you fire from, the more error-tolerant your solution will be.

The ideal firing solution is, while keeping stealth, striving to fire from the shortest range possible (but never under 300 meters), at the lowest gyroangle possible (ideally 0 gyroangle from your bow), when the target offers itself the broadest (so 75-90 degrees AOB). This is not always possible and, sometimes, you may have to plot a firing solution from guestimates or positions that are not ideal. However, the more comfortable you will become the more informed your guesses will be in a pinch.

My point is, there is no single "most accurate targeting method". In time, you will acquire different methods in your toolset that you may use to acquire the data needed to fire and hit your target, dependent on the situation.

12-10-20, 03:08 AM	#1
CassiousClay Mate Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 57 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Most accurate Targeting method? What is the most accurate targeting method we can use? Is there one that's guaranteed to hit every time?

12-10-20, 06:42 AM	#2
derstosstrupp Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 918 Downloads: 490 Uploads: 0	A shot is only as good as the underlying data - AOB, speed, and range. However, some approaches are better than others. Assuming you reasonably accurately determine AOB and speed, you can all but eliminate range by turning so that the gyro angle of the shot is near zero, in practice maybe within 20 degrees of your bow. This is what you should strive to achieve. Then all you need is an eyeballed, rough range at best. Also strive to get below 1000 m. This mitigates the effect of AOB and speed errors. For example, at 1000 m and a 90 degree approach, you’re allowed up to a knot of speed error and 10 degrees of AOB error. So in summary: Approach the target roughly perpendicularly to under 1000 m (but not below 300!) and set yourself up so that the gyro angle is near zero at the shot. This will eliminate range as a source of error, and minimize the impact of possible errors in other data. Here is one of my videos demonstrating these concepts: __________________ Ask me anything about the Type VII or IX! One-Stop Targeting Shop: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...WwBt-1vjW28JbO My YT Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIJ...9FXbD3S2kgwdPQ

12-11-20, 06:19 AM	#4
derstosstrupp Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 918 Downloads: 490 Uploads: 0	You can zoom out on the map. Click to place the ruler where you want, mouse wheel out. WASD to move. The speed timing doesn’t need to be for 5 minutes. Minute or 2 is probably fine. An easy way to get speed also is to point your bow in front of the target, your scope to 0 bearing and wait til his bow crosses the wire, starting the stopwatch. When the stern crosses, stop the time. Take target length / seconds * 1.94 for his speed. Attack disc is accurate. You just need to learn it. Check my channel for the slide rule series. These things have a steep learning curve requiring patience. My “chatty” video is long but it covers EXACTLY what to do to sink a ship. Granted it’s without map contacts which it sounds like you are using to learn and that’s fine. That just makes it that much easier for you. Maybe at this point be less concerned about targeting methods and more about getting comfortable with the interface. Then return to targeting. One step at a time. I for example use a pretty standard TWOS setup so what you see on my screen should align with what you see. I might also point you to the how-to thread in the SH5 area - have you used that? __________________ Ask me anything about the Type VII or IX! One-Stop Targeting Shop: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...WwBt-1vjW28JbO My YT Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIJ...9FXbD3S2kgwdPQ Last edited by derstosstrupp; 12-11-20 at 06:43 AM.

12-11-20, 01:03 PM	#6
Drakken Planesman Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 194 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Are you playing with map contacts update on? I'd advise that you practice with these on first to learn the basics. There's no shame in baby steps. Another advantage of playing with map updates on is that you can actually see the target and the torpedo's projected course on the attack map. When you feel comfortable and reliably sink targets with updates on, then you can then turn those off. 1. Speed: The cornerstone of any firing solution. Unless you're spotted or she starts zig-zagging, it is the only data point that remains constant throughout the attack. Practice by using the map to mark the target's distance travelled in 3:15 minutes, and compare with other speed acquisition methods as you practice. I used to check the speed 2-3 times with different methods, but the constant bearing method and matching the target's course and speed are the historical ones (and quite easy to learn). 2. AOB: Trace the target's course on the map with the protractor, then create an angle from his middle to your bow. That's the AOB. Eyeball it, practice with the Attack disk to match both your and her course, her bearing, and the AOB. You could also use also a visual chart to eyeball and compare with the target's angle. Keep in mind that sharper the AOB is, the easier it is to eyeball; example, it is much easier to distinguish a 10- from a 20-degree AOB than a 60- from a 75-degree AOB. 3. Range: Measure range with a ruler on the map, then practice either with the stadimeter or, if you can use it, learn to handle the RAOBF with the tick marks. It may look complicated at first, but when you get the basics it becomes very easy to use. The shortest the range you fire from, the more error-tolerant your solution will be. The ideal firing solution is, while keeping stealth, striving to fire from the shortest range possible (but never under 300 meters), at the lowest gyroangle possible (ideally 0 gyroangle from your bow), when the target offers itself the broadest (so 75-90 degrees AOB). This is not always possible and, sometimes, you may have to plot a firing solution from guestimates or positions that are not ideal. However, the more comfortable you will become the more informed your guesses will be in a pinch. My point is, there is no single "most accurate targeting method". In time, you will acquire different methods in your toolset that you may use to acquire the data needed to fire and hit your target, dependent on the situation. Last edited by Drakken; 12-11-20 at 02:25 PM.

12-10-20, 10:46 PM	#3
CassiousClay Mate Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 57 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	I've been attempting the practice session in the Historical Missions Menu for TDC. In that scenario the target ship is always within 1000m to 800m or less but more than 300 by the time I get everything done and shoot. I figured out how to launch TDW's tutorial text with automation. It's impossible to follow because the instructions aren't very detailed or accurate. And, of course, the game is buggy as hell. For example when the tutorial text says to draw a line with the ruler through the ship from the last point marked (one of the X's we used to figure out the speed) when I try to do that it's impossible to do and extremely irritating because when I draw the line to the edge of the map it doesn't reach anywhere near where my sub is and when I try to move the map with the arrow keys the crew changes the rudder angle, starts the engines, and starts moving the sub changing position which throws all the calculations I did previously off. Then the tool disappears. The tool is still active but it won't let me draw on the map. VERY FRUSTRATING. Not helping. lol Because of the game doing that it's impossible for me to draw a course line through the target with the ruler or use the protractor to draw a 90° angle reference to follow and position my ship with. I can't do it because the game doesn't let me. The automation tutorial text also says to get the speed by timing it for 5 minutes. By the time the 5 minutes is up the target ship is either right on 90° and I don't have time to fire in time, or it's past the port side of my sub well out of the zone where it's possible for a torpedo to hit it. The attack disk is confusing and doesn't seem accurate. I don't have the patience to sit through watching every second of an hour long video that's mostly the author chatting about everything and anything else other than how to use the attack disk or whatever they're attempting to explain. It's possible I've watched every TDC video there is on youtube by now and none of them have helped. They've either annoyed, irritated, or caused more confusion because: - they conflict and contradict each other with the information they share / how to do it. One person will say "do this" another will say "don't do that, there's no need to". One person will use the attack disk, another doesn't use it at all. Same with the RAOBF one will use it another will not. That only adds to confusion and frustration. - what they're doing in the video doesn't match what's on my screen. Even in the same exact scenario / mission. I haven't been able to learn from videos because of that.