What’s more valuable a target?

skirich · 09-10-19, 03:48 AM

I bumped into a massive convoy late 1944 in the Luzon straight.
It had one carrier and a 34,500 pound Battleship. The carrier was smaller but a nice size anyway.
Strategically a carrier is more important to sink especially when it’s got a full compliment of planes.
But in the game it’s about tonnage and the battleship was just massive.
Fuso class.

The convoy had 6 destroyers and a few other large ships I didn’t immediately recognize.
So I chose the battleship with a salvo of 6 torpedoes. 3 hit and she went down.
I high tailed it out of there fast.

So was that the right move or should I have gone for the carrier?

propbeanie · 09-10-19, 05:59 AM

US Pacific doctrine changed throughout the war, other than CV were at the top of the list, then the BB. You might be told to concentrate of DD for a time, in an attempt to eliminate the bain of the submarines, or maybe told to concentrate on tankers, but the CV never lost their number one status. Must. Eliminate. Airplanes...

Mad Mardigan · 09-10-19, 09:41 AM

For me, all targets are high value targets... but that is just me, and will further explain.

On the whole of it, it is considered high value based on tonnage, which is all fine & good... but... for me, I look at each situation in different terms.

If it is a task force, then of course, carriers would take precedent, followed by battleships... but... when it comes down to it, destroyers are more of a threat than battleships, considering that they can move about faster than you can while you are submerged.

Now as for convoys... therein is a different matter all together, tankers, followed by ships that move cargo around then followed up by troop carriers...

An enemy that can't supply itself, is after all, a defeated one... just simple logistics...

But, in the grand scheme of things, all of this is a moot point, when you take into consideration that there is a serious glitch inherent in game.

That glitch being, the enemy AI, keeps throwing at you the same strong forces, all the time.

Why is this considered a glitch by me... it's simplistic in its answer...

The game fails, and in a big way here, to be able to actually keep up with just what forces it has on hand at the very start of the war... taking into account losses suffered at any given time during the course of it & then compounded all of that, by the follow up of replacements constructed/trained etc., afterwards... hence... epic fail.

To be fair, even though you are playing against a stacked deck, there is still that thrill, when you watch a brace of torp's loaded into the tubes, calc'ing the course speed & attack vector that the torps would need to be fired on to achieve its demise... and after firing them off to watch them hit it amidships, the explosions & finally its demise as it slips beneath the waves & takes that plunge to the deep....

Aktungbby · 09-10-19, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skirich

Luzon straight.

So was that the right move or should I have gone for the carrier?

U SHOULD GO FOR THE CARRIER; IT HAS THE MOST AMOUNT OF DESTRUCTIVE POWER OVER A VAST AREA (500+ MILES) WHEREAS A BB (ALREADY OBSOLETE BY WWII) HAS LIMITED GUNNERY RANGE (20 MILES) AND IS EXCEEDINGLY VULNERABLE TO AIRCRAFT-SO LEAVE THAT TO THE AIR POWER. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_Prince_of_Wales_and_Repulse

THE SWIFT LIGHTLY-BUILT CARRIERS WILL ALSO TAKE FEWER TORPEDOS; SO IT IS A QUESTION OF THE PRINCIPLE: 'ECONOMY OF FORCES' IE: THE LEAST AMOUNT OF FORCE FROM YOUR END(FEWER TORPEDOS) TO REMOVE THE GREATER AMOUNT OF THE ENEMY'S' FIRE POWER OVER A VASTER AMOUNT OF TERRITORY; PERHAPS EVEN SAVING A BATTLESHIP ON YOUR SIDE FROM AIR ATTACKS IN THE PROCESS. IN THIS CASE:A MATTER OF 'GREATER STRATEGY' OVER 'IMMEDIATE TACTICS'. A SUBMARINE IS A STRATEGIC WEAPON AND NOT SUITED TO A TACTICAL SHIP-ON-SHIP DUEL, SO THE EMPHASIS SHOULD LEAN TOWARD SUPERIOR STRATEGY: STARVE THE ENEMY NATION INTO SUBMISSION OR REMOVE HIS CAPACITY TO WAGE OFFENSIVE WARFARE.....

skirich · 09-10-19, 12:11 PM

Sounds about what I thought folks would say.
Yep I agree with it all.

I may go back to that save, I save just before all convoys, and try again.

That convoy, before I could see it, appeared massive on the radar. a few ships in the middle surrounded by what looked like a dozen in a circle around it. Had to be a carrier or battleship armada.

I have been playing with long range radar based position keeper, using the 3D TDC mod. Its been really quite effective and so nice to use. Steep learning curve though, but once learned its pretty sweet. No wonder we had such a huge advantage in our subs.

Anyway, I trained the TDC on the largest center blip and watched the solution develop. Tweaking as things got closer for a more accurate solution

By the time I had visual confirmation of the armada, it was too late to change the solution.

I knew I had to make a spread barrage of all six torpedos at one target since it was going to be a long range shot. It was too dangerous to allow for a close in shot due to the accompanying surface destroyers.

So I made up my mind and went for tonnage instead of quickly loosing my mind trying to recalc the solution for the carrier which was on the far side of the armada.

Poor luck on my part for lining up on that side of the armada.

propbeanie · 09-10-19, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skirich

... Poor luck on my part for lining up on that side of the armada.

Visibility, or sonar identification are about it, so since you lined up on the radar blip, you did the right thing, else everyone gets away except you... "target of opportunity" I believe they call it. Don't ruin a good approach to go after something else - unless absolutely necessary, such as you've been ordered to, or you forgot to come up to PD, or maybe you neglected to open the tubes...

ahem - I had to bring the XO up on charges for not reminding me...

KaleunMarco · 09-10-19, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Visibility, or sonar identification are about it, so since you lined up on the radar blip, you did the right thing, else everyone gets away except you... "target of opportunity" I believe they call it. Don't ruin a good approach to go after something else - unless absolutely necessary, such as you've been ordered to, or you forgot to come up to PD, or maybe you neglected to open the tubes...

ahem - I had to bring the XO up on charges for not reminding me...

should i share the real difference between sinking a IJN carrier or an IJN BB with skirich?
the carrier will be the tougher target because their elude protocol causes them to speed up and move out of the area. some mods will allow them to launch planes to hunt you.
BB's will slow down when the TF is attacked.
and the last piece, BB's are worth more points than a CV. hey, i'm not the programmer here so don't go off on me. if you want to make carriers more valuable then change that value in their config.

but i did not disclose any of this to skirich.

propbeanie · 09-10-19, 04:52 PM

Look in FotRSU, and you'll see that all of the enemy renown awarded is lowered, but the BB more than the CV, such that the CV are worth more than the BB. Also, if you go below PD, the carriers will spawn planes, as will most of the BB. Different types of planes, but planes with bombs that fall down the conn hatch nonetheless...

Kapt Z · 09-10-19, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skirich

Sounds about what I thought folks would say.
Yep I agree with it all.

I may go back to that save, I save just before all convoys, and try again.

That convoy, before I could see it, appeared massive on the radar. a few ships in the middle surrounded by what looked like a dozen in a circle around it. Had to be a carrier or battleship armada.

I have been playing with long range radar based position keeper, using the 3D TDC mod. Its been really quite effective and so nice to use. Steep learning curve though, but once learned its pretty sweet. No wonder we had such a huge advantage in our subs.

Anyway, I trained the TDC on the largest center blip and watched the solution develop. Tweaking as things got closer for a more accurate solution

By the time I had visual confirmation of the armada, it was too late to change the solution.

I knew I had to make a spread barrage of all six torpedos at one target since it was going to be a long range shot. It was too dangerous to allow for a close in shot due to the accompanying surface destroyers.

So I made up my mind and went for tonnage instead of quickly loosing my mind trying to recalc the solution for the carrier which was on the far side of the armada.

Poor luck on my part for lining up on that side of the armada.

What are you upset about?!?

By your skill and determination you and your men permanently deprived the enemy of a major capital vessel! There is absolutely nothing to be sorry about!

Hearty well done and sleep well!

09-10-19, 03:48 AM	#1
skirich Chief Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Patroling the south pacific Posts: 321 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	What’s more valuable a target? I bumped into a massive convoy late 1944 in the Luzon straight. It had one carrier and a 34,500 pound Battleship. The carrier was smaller but a nice size anyway. Strategically a carrier is more important to sink especially when it’s got a full compliment of planes. But in the game it’s about tonnage and the battleship was just massive. Fuso class. The convoy had 6 destroyers and a few other large ships I didn’t immediately recognize. So I chose the battleship with a salvo of 6 torpedoes. 3 hit and she went down. I high tailed it out of there fast. So was that the right move or should I have gone for the carrier?

09-10-19, 05:59 AM	#2
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 10,098 Downloads: 451 Uploads: 2	US Pacific doctrine changed throughout the war, other than CV were at the top of the list, then the BB. You might be told to concentrate of DD for a time, in an attempt to eliminate the bain of the submarines, or maybe told to concentrate on tankers, but the CV never lost their number one status. Must. Eliminate. Airplanes... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayers" - Jimbuna

09-10-19, 09:41 AM	#3
Mad Mardigan Admiral Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Grand Rapids, Mi. Posts: 2,327 Downloads: 491 Uploads: 0	Re: Target value..??? For me, all targets are high value targets... but that is just me, and will further explain. On the whole of it, it is considered high value based on tonnage, which is all fine & good... but... for me, I look at each situation in different terms. If it is a task force, then of course, carriers would take precedent, followed by battleships... but... when it comes down to it, destroyers are more of a threat than battleships, considering that they can move about faster than you can while you are submerged. Now as for convoys... therein is a different matter all together, tankers, followed by ships that move cargo around then followed up by troop carriers... An enemy that can't supply itself, is after all, a defeated one... just simple logistics... But, in the grand scheme of things, all of this is a moot point, when you take into consideration that there is a serious glitch inherent in game. That glitch being, the enemy AI, keeps throwing at you the same strong forces, all the time. Why is this considered a glitch by me... it's simplistic in its answer... The game fails, and in a big way here, to be able to actually keep up with just what forces it has on hand at the very start of the war... taking into account losses suffered at any given time during the course of it & then compounded all of that, by the follow up of replacements constructed/trained etc., afterwards... hence... epic fail. To be fair, even though you are playing against a stacked deck, there is still that thrill, when you watch a brace of torp's loaded into the tubes, calc'ing the course speed & attack vector that the torps would need to be fired on to achieve its demise... and after firing them off to watch them hit it amidships, the explosions & finally its demise as it slips beneath the waves & takes that plunge to the deep.... __________________

09-10-19, 04:52 PM	#8
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 10,098 Downloads: 451 Uploads: 2	Look in FotRSU, and you'll see that all of the enemy renown awarded is lowered, but the BB more than the CV, such that the CV are worth more than the BB. Also, if you go below PD, the carriers will spawn planes, as will most of the BB. Different types of planes, but planes with bombs that fall down the conn hatch nonetheless... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayers" - Jimbuna

09-10-19, 12:11 PM	#5
skirich Chief Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Patroling the south pacific Posts: 321 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Sounds about what I thought folks would say. Yep I agree with it all. I may go back to that save, I save just before all convoys, and try again. That convoy, before I could see it, appeared massive on the radar. a few ships in the middle surrounded by what looked like a dozen in a circle around it. Had to be a carrier or battleship armada. I have been playing with long range radar based position keeper, using the 3D TDC mod. Its been really quite effective and so nice to use. Steep learning curve though, but once learned its pretty sweet. No wonder we had such a huge advantage in our subs. Anyway, I trained the TDC on the largest center blip and watched the solution develop. Tweaking as things got closer for a more accurate solution By the time I had visual confirmation of the armada, it was too late to change the solution. I knew I had to make a spread barrage of all six torpedos at one target since it was going to be a long range shot. It was too dangerous to allow for a close in shot due to the accompanying surface destroyers. So I made up my mind and went for tonnage instead of quickly loosing my mind trying to recalc the solution for the carrier which was on the far side of the armada. Poor luck on my part for lining up on that side of the armada.