Range of radio stations

kapuhy · 03-16-19, 05:17 PM

Hi guys,

Recently bstanko6 posted a question on general SH5 forum regarding how far the radio waves would propagate in real life, in order to allow for more immersive gameplay. Reading this got me to do a little experiment - forgive me if this is all common knowledge but for whatever reason it is unused (neither in TWOS, Bstanko6's Radio Channels nor Carotio's International Radio Mod). Radio range is modeled in radio.ini for all stations:

[CHANNEL]
Name=Berlin
Folder=Berlin
Freq=200
Antenna=01.01.1930-01.01.2000:52.32,13.42:750
MusicVolumeOnNews=0.01

This is an example of entry in the file. We can set station name, frequency (any between 1 and 999), time range when radio is active, position from which it broadcasts and the last parameter seems to be maximum range in kilometers at which you can hear the station - at first, barely audible over the white noise sound. I tried tweaking this value back and forth for stations in known range from my U-Boat and I'd say one needs to be some 100-300 kilometers inside the radio range to hear it clearly and without noise, for example:

- My boat is 664 km form Berlin. I can hear Berlin station well if I set it's range to 800, barely if I set it to 750, and not at all below 700
- Algiers, 2854 kilometers from by boat: audible when range set above 3000, clearly audible over 3100
- Grossdeuscher Rundfunk: 1291 km from my boat, audible very weak when range set to 1300, and clearly when set to 1550

I was thinking that these parameters (antenna's time, position and range) could be used to have a bit more immersion in game - let's say if we use semi-realistic ranges and have more radio stations all over the world, player would have different music/news available during various patrols, depending on his boat position.

One could also use the same radio folder for several antennas - this would not inflate the radio folder size but could have interesting uses, for example German radio could broadcast not just from Germany, but also from capitals of occupied countries at the time when they are conquered by Germany.

Ok, I'm rambling a bit here so I'll shut up for now

Just wanted to know if anyone has been putting this range parameter to use.

gap · 03-16-19, 08:24 PM

Hi kapuhy,

I think radio Antenna values are fully functional and yes, I agree with you that - so far - they have been largely overlooked by modders. Unfortunately directional antennas can't be simulated, so for instance we can't get Radio London to broadcast their propaganda programs in German over Germany, in Italian over Italy, etc.

Other than that, there are other cool things that can be made with radio stations. There used to be some interesting threads on the topic posted in the SHIV-modding subsorum. When I find them I will drop their link here

kapuhy · 03-17-19, 04:35 AM

Seems like a fun project to start

As for directional antennas for specific areas - this can be somewhat solved by simply adding frequencies for propaganda in various languages, having like "BBC_Italy", "BBC_Germany" etc. and making sure target area is covered by station range. I'd be more worried about the disk space it would take to have enough multi-language news to make listening to the channel worth it.

That, and one would need people fluent in languages used, to search for and understand the content of broadcasts in order to put them in correct time.

gap · 03-17-19, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Seems like a fun project to start

As for directional antennas for specific areas - this can be somewhat solved by simply adding frequencies for propaganda in various languages, having like "BBC_Italy", "BBC_Germany" etc. and making sure target area is covered by station range. I'd be more worried about the disk space it would take to have enough multi-language news to make listening to the channel worth it.

That, and one would need people fluent in languages used, to search for and understand the content of broadcasts in order to put them in correct time.

yes, my point is that if you use real antenna coordinates, most shortwave (= long range) radio programs will be audible outside their historical reception ranges.

kapuhy · 03-17-19, 01:36 PM

Well, the range "border" works really nice, just checked it by sailing out of station's range - radio gradually is replaced by white noise as you get close to the border, it feels very natural.

Bad news is we apparently can't have several transmitters sharing one audio folder - I made two "copies" of a radio station with the same folder but different names and antenna coords, and the game simply ignored the second one. So there goes my idea of having for example several time-limited transmitters for Grossdeustcher Rundfunk from occupied countries.

gap · 03-17-19, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Well, the range "border" works really nice, just checked it by sailing out of station's range - radio gradually is replaced by white noise as you get close to the border, it feels very natural.

From your answer I understand that I didn't make myself clear enough. I will try with another example. During WWII, EIAR (the national radio broadcaster of the time) had in its schedule programs of Japanese music and news which were intended for the Far East. If I made those programs into a radio station with its antenna located in Rome and a range factor big enough to reach Japan, the same station would be audible not only in Japan but in the Western hemisphere as well, as far the East Coast of the States. This is obviously wrong: if I wanted the said programs to be only audible over Asia and maybe Eastern Europe, I should place its antenna in an arbitrary location somewhere between Italy and Japan, and reduce its range accordingly...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Bad news is we apparently can't have several transmitters sharing one audio folder - I made two "copies" of a radio station with the same folder but different names and antenna coords, and the game simply ignored the second one. So there goes my idea of having for example several time-limited transmitters for Grossdeustcher Rundfunk from occupied countries.

Good news for you: what you want to do has been achieved for SHIV, using a little trick:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedhealy

In order to get new stations to feed off of the same folder, you seem to have to add a backslash to the front of the folder name for every new station.

So you end up with

[GENERAL]
RadioRealism=Yes
StartCh=1

[CHANNEL]
Name=Washington
Folder=Washington
Freq=22
Antenna=01.01.1930-01.01.2000:21.36,-157.96:6000

[CHANNEL]
Name=Washington-Midway
Folder=\Washington
Freq=42
Antenna=01.01.1930-01.01.2000:28.00,179.00:2800

[CHANNEL]
Name=Washington-Manila
Folder=\\Washington
Freq=52
Antenna=01.01.1930-02.01.1942:14.40,120.35:1600

My recommendation for you is to read carefully the following threads, as they contain information and ideas that you might find useful

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...720#post461720

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...630#post465630

03-16-19, 05:17 PM	#1
kapuhy Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Poland Posts: 874 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 3	Range of radio stations Hi guys, Recently bstanko6 posted a question on general SH5 forum regarding how far the radio waves would propagate in real life, in order to allow for more immersive gameplay. Reading this got me to do a little experiment - forgive me if this is all common knowledge but for whatever reason it is unused (neither in TWOS, Bstanko6's Radio Channels nor Carotio's International Radio Mod). Radio range is modeled in radio.ini for all stations: [CHANNEL] Name=Berlin Folder=Berlin Freq=200 Antenna=01.01.1930-01.01.2000:52.32,13.42:750 MusicVolumeOnNews=0.01 This is an example of entry in the file. We can set station name, frequency (any between 1 and 999), time range when radio is active, position from which it broadcasts and the last parameter seems to be maximum range in kilometers at which you can hear the station - at first, barely audible over the white noise sound. I tried tweaking this value back and forth for stations in known range from my U-Boat and I'd say one needs to be some 100-300 kilometers inside the radio range to hear it clearly and without noise, for example: - My boat is 664 km form Berlin. I can hear Berlin station well if I set it's range to 800, barely if I set it to 750, and not at all below 700 - Algiers, 2854 kilometers from by boat: audible when range set above 3000, clearly audible over 3100 - Grossdeuscher Rundfunk: 1291 km from my boat, audible very weak when range set to 1300, and clearly when set to 1550 I was thinking that these parameters (antenna's time, position and range) could be used to have a bit more immersion in game - let's say if we use semi-realistic ranges and have more radio stations all over the world, player would have different music/news available during various patrols, depending on his boat position. One could also use the same radio folder for several antennas - this would not inflate the radio folder size but could have interesting uses, for example German radio could broadcast not just from Germany, but also from capitals of occupied countries at the time when they are conquered by Germany. Ok, I'm rambling a bit here so I'll shut up for now Just wanted to know if anyone has been putting this range parameter to use.

03-16-19, 08:24 PM	#2
gap Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CJ8937 Posts: 8,215 Downloads: 793 Uploads: 10	Hi kapuhy, I think radio Antenna values are fully functional and yes, I agree with you that - so far - they have been largely overlooked by modders. Unfortunately directional antennas can't be simulated, so for instance we can't get Radio London to broadcast their propaganda programs in German over Germany, in Italian over Italy, etc. Other than that, there are other cool things that can be made with radio stations. There used to be some interesting threads on the topic posted in the SHIV-modding subsorum. When I find them I will drop their link here __________________ _____________________ \|May the Force be with you!\| ...\/

03-17-19, 04:35 AM	#3
kapuhy Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Poland Posts: 874 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 3	Seems like a fun project to start As for directional antennas for specific areas - this can be somewhat solved by simply adding frequencies for propaganda in various languages, having like "BBC_Italy", "BBC_Germany" etc. and making sure target area is covered by station range. I'd be more worried about the disk space it would take to have enough multi-language news to make listening to the channel worth it. That, and one would need people fluent in languages used, to search for and understand the content of broadcasts in order to put them in correct time.

03-17-19, 01:36 PM	#5
kapuhy Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Poland Posts: 874 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 3	Well, the range "border" works really nice, just checked it by sailing out of station's range - radio gradually is replaced by white noise as you get close to the border, it feels very natural. Bad news is we apparently can't have several transmitters sharing one audio folder - I made two "copies" of a radio station with the same folder but different names and antenna coords, and the game simply ignored the second one. So there goes my idea of having for example several time-limited transmitters for Grossdeustcher Rundfunk from occupied countries.