Lighthouses in SH5

Seaowl · 01-07-19, 03:24 PM

This thread is in some way a spin-off from the SH3 lighthouse thread. I cannot see much sense in it, to have two threads for discussing the creation of new 3D models, historical and technical issues or localization of lighthouses. If you want to do that, do it in the SH3 lighthouse thread. Doing it this way will confirm that all this information will stay bundled at one place.

The one and only goal of his thread shall be to achieve something for SH5, that was present right from the beginning in SH3: a working lighthouse model; one, whose flare you are able to see from far away and one you are able to place where ever you want.

How cool would it be to return at port at night by following the flare of a lighthouse or to regain orientation by it during a storm after one week of dead reckoning.

With the help of Gap or better: only throught the help of Gap, I was able to import Flakmonkeys beautiful lighthouse model to SH5.
Jeff-Groves helped me to make the fresnel shine, which where shut down, because I complicated the controller stuff.

Nothing more at the moment.
A raw imported SH3 lighthouse in SH5.

In the near future, I will try to do some basics: Creating ambient occlusion- and normalmaps, tweak the controllers (the range of the light is way too short), maybe importing it into some GR2 object, who knows.
None of this I have ever done before. So expect a lot of questions.

It would be nice, if someone could tell me, how to contact Flakmonkey for permission to use his lighthouse.

Although no screenshotmaster, here some pics (1,2,5 taken in Ecomod-ambiance):

Seaowl · 01-07-19, 04:18 PM

Like announced the first question:
Is there a difference in scale you have to consider when importing units from SH3 to SH5?
Having stared too long at this lighthouse, I couldn´t tell, if its definitley too small.

Seaowl · 01-09-19, 08:13 AM

In the meantime, I´ve found an answer on that question myself.
In TWoS there is a handy tool, called LXX-ruler, included.
So I was able to find out, that the heigth of the lighthouse in SH3 respectively in S3D, matches the height in SH5. Both are around 26,5 meters.
[IMG]

[/IMG]

In addition I managed to create a second map channel into the lighthouse .dat following this threat http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=135177

But now there is no way to apply the lightmap on the model: It works not the SH3 way to attach the lightmap directly at the main texture and not the SH4 way using unified render controller.
The latter gave me a lot of troubles, so it seems to me that it doesn´t work with land objects at all.
Probably herein lies the root of the short visibility of the lighthouse flare?
Whatever...
Does somebody knows something about the TDW_FXU_lighthouse_flare inside the library?
I tried to make it work instead of my SH3 flare, but didn´t succeed.

gap · 01-13-19, 08:19 PM

Very nice!

All the SH models from SHIII to SH5 use the same scale. I am sorry that you had to waste your time on checking that, before I could solve your doubts.

In the EcoMod as well as in TWoS there are rulers for measuring objects in game (from the style of the TWoS ruler, I think it is my work, but as I had completely forgotten about it, I created a similar one for the EcoMod). Nonetheless, the quickest way to measure game's 3D objects, is by exporting their meshes and measuring them in a 3D modelling software. One unit measured in any of the commonly used 3D program is equal to ten in-game meters.

If you specify what kind of lightmap you want to add to the model, maybe I can help you with it.

Finally, IIRC TDW's particle effects are done in a way that they can only be edited using an hex editor. You can use his flare effect as it is, but its particle generator(s) might be pointing to textures and materials contained in FXUpdates, so you need to have that mod (or TWoS) installed for the effect to work...

Jeff-Groves · 01-15-19, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaowl

It would be nice, if someone could tell me, how to contact Flakmonkey for permission to use his lighthouse.

FlakMonkey has not logged in since 06-20-2017

Just follow the Guidelines posted here...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115983

You will need to add the Normals to the 3D model as it does not have them.
Until that is done you will never get normal textures to work.
Same with the AO

Jeff-Groves · 01-15-19, 05:50 PM

Now here's an interesting thought.
SH4 has no listing of the Unified render controller in it's core files.
(The act files and such.)
SH5 has one but seems to be only an error message thing possibly for devs?

I wonder what would happen if a new shader was placed in the Shaders folder? Say a modified Unifiedrender controller shader with the caustics stuff removed?
Then edit the controller in the dats to remove the caustics stuff.
Would need to be done by hand in Hex of course.

IF it works with no issues? Could be a door to add things to SH4 style dats.

gap · 01-15-19, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

IF it works with no issues? Could be a door to add things to SH4 style dats.

What do you have in mind exactly?

Jeff-Groves · 01-15-19, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap

What do you have in mind exactly?

If we can edit the Unfiedrender as I stated and it works?
I'm thinking we may be able to ADD to it.
Maybe even create new shaders.

gap · 01-15-19, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

If we can edit the Unfiedrender as I stated and it works?
I'm thinking we may be able to ADD to it.
Maybe even create new shaders.

ADD dynamic shadows maybe?

flakmonkey · 01-20-19, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

FlakMonkey has not logged in since 06-20-2017

Just follow the Guidelines posted here...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115983

You will need to add the Normals to the 3D model as it does not have them.
Until that is done you will never get normal textures to work.
Same with the AO

I'm still around, and as always, anyone has standing permission to use any of my old sh3 mods for anything they like

Seaowl · 01-20-19, 03:25 AM

Thank you, Flakmonkey!

Your lighthouse is an awesome model and still the best looking lighthouse in SH.
And what is more: it is functional out of the box in SH5.
I will change nothing at the 3D model itself
and of course - if there will be a release - give proper credits.

At the moment I´am working out some coordinates to place it in the first two campaigns.
Had some saving troubles, but now hopefully everything will go well.

Seaowl · 01-26-19, 04:32 AM

Small update for my part: Have localized lighthouses for regions where the first campaign takes place.
The coordinates match not to 100% the real world coordinates.
Thats not possible, because the SH5 world differs from the real world.
I tried to find the most plausible spot for lighthouses on the SH5 map near their real-world-locations.
As source I used mainly wikipedia. The lighthouses names are their present-days names (consistently without diacritical signs).

Reading Gap´s last information about his Ecomod, it seems to be best to wait with any further work on placing lighthouses until Gap proceeds.
I wasn´t able to place important lighthouses, because rocks and islands are missing.
Perhaps I will compile a list of those around Great-Britain, Ireland, Sweden, Norway.

Problem until now is:
Some .dat files appear in SH5, others don´t, even though I do exactly the same things, when importing them.
Will search through the TDW-unit-import-thread to find a solution.

The next step will be to import the lighthouse into a .GR2 file, namely the „church“ file.
To begin with I will do it without AO- or Normalmaps, because I had troubles with flickering.
Will follow TDW´s instructions and cry for help.
If someone knows some coprehensible tutorial, I would be grateful.

gap · 01-26-19, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaowl

Small update for my part: Have localized lighthouses for regions where the first campaign takes place.
The coordinates match not to 100% the real world coordinates.
Thats not possible, because the SH5 world differs from the real world.

Can you please make a quick list of the lighthouses whose real location didn't find an exact match in the SH5 world?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaowl

I tried to find the most plausible spot for lighthouses on the SH5 map near their real-world-locations.
As source I used mainly wikipedia. The lighthouses names are their present-days names (consistently without diacritical signs).

Don't always trust wikipedia: I don't say that its information is wrong, but more often than not the coordinates it offers are an approximation of the real locations. For still existing lighthouses, I always check them with Google Earth.

On a side note: the best all-around website on lighthouses that I have found so far is the lighthouse directory. Other websites with nautical charts that I like checking for minor and lesser known lights and beacons not listed elsewhere, are the following:

http://map.openseamap.org/
http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts...avigation.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaowl

Reading Gap´s last information about his Ecomod, it seems to be best to wait with any further work on placing lighthouses until Gap proceeds.
I wasn´t able to place important lighthouses, because rocks and islands are missing.
Perhaps I will compile a list of those around Great-Britain, Ireland, Sweden, Norway.

Yes please!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaowl

Problem until now is:
Some .dat files appear in SH5, others don´t, even though I do exactly the same things, when importing them.
Will search through the TDW-unit-import-thread to find a solution.

That's weird. Check if their 3D coordinates don't place them below the terrain/seabed level. Did you set them as terrain objects or as land units?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaowl

The next step will be to import the lighthouse into a .GR2 file, namely the „church“ file.
To begin with I will do it without AO- or Normalmaps, because I had troubles with flickering.
Will follow TDW´s instructions and cry for help.
If someone knows some coprehensible tutorial, I would be grateful.

Always make sure that the GR2 file you start from, fits your present and future needs.

Most stock terrain objects lack 'bump' and 'additional bumpmap' (i.e. normal map) support. In addition to that, the model you have chosen also lacks "self-illumination" (i.e. ambient occlusion map) support. That is okay, because you said that you don't want your model to feature those maps, but if in future you will decide to add them, you might be forced to re-import your model in another GR2 file with a better texture support; in theory, on loading any GR2 file the latest GR2 Editor versions let you choose whether you want to add the missing strings to the file, but that never actually worked for me.

Something else you should look, is the number of meshes of the base_GR2 file, because you can't add new meshes. Church.GR2 has only two meshes, one for the visible model and one for the collision model. That's okay if you want to import you lighthouse as one mesh, but if you wanted to split it in one or more parts, or if you wanted it to use a lowpoly water reflection model you might better pick some other GR2 file with more than two meshes.

Lastly, I have recently discovered that the HarborObjectCtrl, used in SH5 for the rendering of snowy textures during winter and of windows lights at night, doesn't work on my pinnacle rock texture, probably because - looking for normal map support - I imported it the GR2 file of one of the icebergs which obviously don't need that controller. As you see, it is a matter of compromises, and often you will have to trade off some features for some other features

Ashikaga · 02-10-19, 05:29 AM

Pity one cannot use the searchlight glares in combination with the lighthouse

gap · 02-10-19, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashikaga

Pity one cannot use the searchlight glares in combination with the lighthouse

who said that?

01-07-19, 03:24 PM	#1
Seaowl Sailor man Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 43 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Lighthouses in SH5 This thread is in some way a spin-off from the SH3 lighthouse thread. I cannot see much sense in it, to have two threads for discussing the creation of new 3D models, historical and technical issues or localization of lighthouses. If you want to do that, do it in the SH3 lighthouse thread. Doing it this way will confirm that all this information will stay bundled at one place. The one and only goal of his thread shall be to achieve something for SH5, that was present right from the beginning in SH3: a working lighthouse model; one, whose flare you are able to see from far away and one you are able to place where ever you want. How cool would it be to return at port at night by following the flare of a lighthouse or to regain orientation by it during a storm after one week of dead reckoning. With the help of Gap or better: only throught the help of Gap, I was able to import Flakmonkeys beautiful lighthouse model to SH5. Jeff-Groves helped me to make the fresnel shine, which where shut down, because I complicated the controller stuff. Nothing more at the moment. A raw imported SH3 lighthouse in SH5. In the near future, I will try to do some basics: Creating ambient occlusion- and normalmaps, tweak the controllers (the range of the light is way too short), maybe importing it into some GR2 object, who knows. None of this I have ever done before. So expect a lot of questions. It would be nice, if someone could tell me, how to contact Flakmonkey for permission to use his lighthouse. Although no screenshotmaster, here some pics (1,2,5 taken in Ecomod-ambiance):

01-09-19, 08:13 AM	#3
Seaowl Sailor man Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 43 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	In the meantime, I´ve found an answer on that question myself. In TWoS there is a handy tool, called LXX-ruler, included. So I was able to find out, that the heigth of the lighthouse in SH3 respectively in S3D, matches the height in SH5. Both are around 26,5 meters. [IMG][/IMG] In addition I managed to create a second map channel into the lighthouse .dat following this threat http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=135177 But now there is no way to apply the lightmap on the model: It works not the SH3 way to attach the lightmap directly at the main texture and not the SH4 way using unified render controller. The latter gave me a lot of troubles, so it seems to me that it doesn´t work with land objects at all. Probably herein lies the root of the short visibility of the lighthouse flare? Whatever... Does somebody knows something about the TDW_FXU_lighthouse_flare inside the library? I tried to make it work instead of my SH3 flare, but didn´t succeed.

01-13-19, 08:19 PM	#4
gap Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CJ8937 Posts: 8,215 Downloads: 793 Uploads: 10	Very nice! All the SH models from SHIII to SH5 use the same scale. I am sorry that you had to waste your time on checking that, before I could solve your doubts. In the EcoMod as well as in TWoS there are rulers for measuring objects in game (from the style of the TWoS ruler, I think it is my work, but as I had completely forgotten about it, I created a similar one for the EcoMod). Nonetheless, the quickest way to measure game's 3D objects, is by exporting their meshes and measuring them in a 3D modelling software. One unit measured in any of the commonly used 3D program is equal to ten in-game meters. If you specify what kind of lightmap you want to add to the model, maybe I can help you with it. Finally, IIRC TDW's particle effects are done in a way that they can only be edited using an hex editor. You can use his flare effect as it is, but its particle generator(s) might be pointing to textures and materials contained in FXUpdates, so you need to have that mod (or TWoS) installed for the effect to work... __________________ _____________________ \|May the Force be with you!\| ...\/

01-26-19, 04:32 AM	#12
Seaowl Sailor man Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 43 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Small update for my part: Have localized lighthouses for regions where the first campaign takes place. The coordinates match not to 100% the real world coordinates. Thats not possible, because the SH5 world differs from the real world. I tried to find the most plausible spot for lighthouses on the SH5 map near their real-world-locations. As source I used mainly wikipedia. The lighthouses names are their present-days names (consistently without diacritical signs). Reading Gap´s last information about his Ecomod, it seems to be best to wait with any further work on placing lighthouses until Gap proceeds. I wasn´t able to place important lighthouses, because rocks and islands are missing. Perhaps I will compile a list of those around Great-Britain, Ireland, Sweden, Norway. Problem until now is: Some .dat files appear in SH5, others don´t, even though I do exactly the same things, when importing them. Will search through the TDW-unit-import-thread to find a solution. The next step will be to import the lighthouse into a .GR2 file, namely the „church“ file. To begin with I will do it without AO- or Normalmaps, because I had troubles with flickering. Will follow TDW´s instructions and cry for help. If someone knows some coprehensible tutorial, I would be grateful. Last edited by Seaowl; 01-26-19 at 05:33 AM.

02-10-19, 05:29 AM	#14
Ashikaga Commodore Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Netherlands Posts: 620 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	Pity one cannot use the searchlight glares in combination with the lighthouse __________________

01-07-19, 04:18 PM	#2
Seaowl Sailor man Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 43 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Like announced the first question: Is there a difference in scale you have to consider when importing units from SH3 to SH5? Having stared too long at this lighthouse, I couldn´t tell, if its definitley too small.

01-15-19, 05:50 PM	#6
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,653 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	Now here's an interesting thought. SH4 has no listing of the Unified render controller in it's core files. (The act files and such.) SH5 has one but seems to be only an error message thing possibly for devs? I wonder what would happen if a new shader was placed in the Shaders folder? Say a modified Unifiedrender controller shader with the caustics stuff removed? Then edit the controller in the dats to remove the caustics stuff. Would need to be done by hand in Hex of course. IF it works with no issues? Could be a door to add things to SH4 style dats.

01-20-19, 03:25 AM	#11
Seaowl Sailor man Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 43 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Thank you, Flakmonkey! Your lighthouse is an awesome model and still the best looking lighthouse in SH. And what is more: it is functional out of the box in SH5. I will change nothing at the 3D model itself and of course - if there will be a release - give proper credits. At the moment I´am working out some coordinates to place it in the first two campaigns. Had some saving troubles, but now hopefully everything will go well.