Chinese sub gets inside US Fleet

[CaptainCruise]

I came across this story while looking up torpedo information. Amazing that this could happen. The story is 10 years old so you may remember it when it happened. I just thought some of you would find it interesting:


The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

By Matthew Hickly, Daily Mail, 10 November 2007

<the article source>
When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.
At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.
That is the theory. Or, rather, was the theory.


Uninvited guest: A Chinese Song Class submarine, like the one that sufaced by the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk
American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk—a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.

By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.

The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.
One Nato figure said the effect was “as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik”̬a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.

And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

According to the Nato source, the encounter has forced a serious re-think of American and Nato naval strategy as commanders reconsider the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was “shadowing*#21; the U.S. fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as coincidence.

Analysts believe Beijing was sending a message to America and the West demonstrating its rapidly-growing military capability to threaten foreign powers which try to interfere in its “backyard”.

The People's Liberation Army Navy's submarine fleet includes at least two nuclear-missile launching vessels. Its 13 Song Class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors.

Commodore Stephen Saunders, editor of Jane's Fighting Ships, and a former Royal Navy anti-submarine specialist, said the U.S. had paid relatively little attention to this form of warfare since the end of the Cold War. He said: “It was certainly a wake-up call for the Americans.
“It would tie in with what we see the Chinese trying to do, which appears to be to deter the Americans from interfering or operating in their backyard, particularly in relation to Taiwan.”

In January China carried a successful missile test, shooting down a satellite in orbit for the first time.

[ikalugin]

Daily mail is not the most reliable source.

[Skybird]

^ Still the Chinese were not the first who achieved this, if the story is true. Swedish, German and Dutch boats scored against carrier battle groups as well. And not just in exercises, but random meetings (where it should be demanded a carrier group were able to protect itself).

A carrier is a weapon to be used against an inferior enemy these days. Against an enemy of equal military capabilities at sea or on the air, a carrier is just a floating target. Relying on them today in projections about the future war compares to those admirals who in WWII still believed in battleships. The underlying mistake is to assume the next war will be waged by the ways and methods by which the last war was won.

Subs are superior against carriers. Autonomous drones, both under sea and in the air, are the future. The US is breeding dinosaurs when investing into new carriers. They are doomed to go extinct. The concept is an overaged waste of money considering military scenarios against enemies who operate on same eye level.

Chinese subs must not even strike themselves, its enough if they serve as ears - to provide intel for those refurbished ICBMs the Chinese have rebuild as carrier-killers.

Considering the short legs of the F35, its hard too believe how the Navy would be able to maintain carrier presence at a useful range to China without loosing carriers. Extending their legs by the use of tankers, means to expose the logistical basis for supplying a strike force in mid-air, also it could givce away attack vectors and thus neutralise the not really cheap-to-have advantage of stealthed fighterbombers. It just does not make sense to me, no matter how I turn it.

Already now, in case of a major war I do not take an American victory as granted. I must admit by now I even see chances having shifted below the 50:50 ratio already, against the US. And the shift goes on, every month.

[Jimbuna]

If reports are accurate you can also add the French and Royal Navy to the list.

[Platapus]

Do we know that the American's did not know about this?

A good way to collect intelligence on the Chinese is not stopping them from doing something but collecting detailed information on how they are doing it.

A good way to give the Chinese intelligence is letting them know exactly when we can detect them.

This is one of the ongoing battles between Intelligence and Operations.

Too many times Ops wins and we end up losing an opportunity to learn and can even give a potential adversary new data.

[Skybird]

When heads are rolling I take that as a sign for that the event was unwelcomed.