No way I hit a destroyer

VIPer530 · 05-11-16, 05:34 PM

Hi everyone,

I'm on my 2nd patrol, so I still consider myself quite green.
I'm using TMO with maximum realistic settings, no other mods.

Anyway, I found a single destroyer, Mutsuki or whatever the name was, or well, I think he rather found me. After playing defence for about 2 hours I managed to escape undamaged, and I felt like playing offence for a change.
Let's not discuss if that was a good call, the point is:

The weather is perfect, clear sky, noon, no wind. Perfect conditions to spot incoming torpedos. Under these conditions there is literally NO WAY I can hit the destroyer with a single torpedo or a spread of two torpedos.
The propblem is not that I wouldn't hit, neither am I getting duds, he simply evades every bullet I fire.
Is he one of these matrix guys?

Joking aside...
I saved the game and then ran a series of attempts from the following position: I'm at periscope depth, roughly 2100 yards off his starboard side, pretty much exactly at his 090. He's at a dead stop, firing flares (hell knows why, in the middle of the day...).
I fire at the centre of his ship... he accelerates, I miss astern.
I fire at his bow... he accelerates, I miss astern.
I fire at the tip of his bow... he accelerates, I miss astern.
I fire at a point ahead of him... you can guess it...

So, no way I can hit with just one torpedo. Allright, let's use two.
I fire one at his ship, the second one 2 degrees ahead of him... He accelerates, torpedo with the 2 degrees lead misses astern.
Second one with 3 degrees lead... He accelerates earlies, I miss astern.
I could continue... So whatever I do, he acts against the torpedo that is the most demanding for him in terms of acceleration.
It also does not matter which one I fire first. He will always react just in time to evade the one that's most "in front" with respect to his course.
If I give the second one too much of a lead, he will accelerate much later, then the first will miss astern, and the second one will pass him on his bow.

My distance to him also has no impact. I ran another trial and I could not hit him from < 700 yards! I haven't tried salvoes with more than 2 torpedos yet, but I would guess I get the same result.

Sooooo, question: Is there a way to hit (other than perhaps pure luck) in these weather and daylight conditions and am I just too stupid to figure it out? Or is it, the way the AI is programmed, just an extremely stupid idea to attack him at all?

Thanks for your opinions and / or support!

Crannogman · 05-11-16, 07:20 PM

Open range to 8500 yards, engage with deck gun.

Seriously though, try using more torpedoes. A 3-4 fish spread seems to be the minimum for success. You're actually in luck, if he's stopped you don't have to waste any shots behind him (a moving ship you would have to allow for him slowing down). You could also figure out his length and then do some trig to figure the max spread angle that allows you place a torpedo every hull length for some distance. You should definitely be able to hit him with no more than 3 torps at 700y.

Edit: per my iPhone calculations, a mutsuki takes up 2.7 degrees at 2100y and 8.5 degrees at 700y, so that should be your spread. Or you can measure it with your periscope, but that may vary with your mod

Sailor Steve · 05-11-16, 08:10 PM

What we used to do with SH1: Go to flank speed. Raise your periscope (which they couldn't do in real life - too much vibration). Run away. He'll see your scope and chase you. Fire a stern tube at about 750 yards. He can't evade, especially if it's under his keel and magnetic. Go deep and turn, just in case.

Not realistic at all, but works most of the time.

Rockin Robbins · 05-12-16, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

What we used to do with SH1: Go to flank speed. Raise your periscope (which they couldn't do in real life - too much vibration). Run away. He'll see your scope and chase you. Fire a stern tube at about 750 yards. He can't evade, especially if it's under his keel and magnetic. Go deep and turn, just in case.

Not realistic at all, but works most of the time.

Even at that I find that a shot at 750 yards in the running away down the throat configuration, the DD just jukes to the side and you miss. If you wait until the range is under 500 yards your hit rate goes to about 70%.

Now the fun part! Set the torpedo to run on the surface and hit the DD on the nose and a game bug that makes that section nearly invincible causes big explosion with the DD just continuing on unhindered most of the time. Set it deeper than that and on magnetic and the magnetic sensor doesn't work and/or the torp runs deep and no boom!

You're best off setting on the surface with magnetic sensor on in case it runs deep.

You can increase hit percentage by shooting a spread but three torpedoes in exchange for less than 1900 tons is a terrible exchange of risk for reward. I only fire one torp at a time at escorts.

Crannogman · 05-12-16, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Even at that I find that a shot at 750 yards in the running away down the throat configuration, the DD just jukes to the side and you miss. If you wait until the range is under 500 yards your hit rate goes to about 70%.

Now the fun part! Set the torpedo to run on the surface and hit the DD on the nose and a game bug that makes that section nearly invincible causes big explosion with the DD just continuing on unhindered most of the time. Set it deeper than that and on magnetic and the magnetic sensor doesn't work and/or the torp runs deep and no boom!

You're best off setting on the surface with magnetic sensor on in case it runs deep.

You can increase hit percentage by shooting a spread but three torpedoes in exchange for less than 1900 tons is a terrible exchange of risk for reward. I only fire one torp at a time at escorts.

Pretty much. The final lesson is that this destroyer is not worth your time or torpedoes

lukterran · 05-12-16, 02:00 PM

Destroyers are really hard to hit in the stock, they are normally not worth wasting torps on. Just avoid them. In the game their movement and physics aren't simulated correctly, so they have the ability to dodge and speed up and slow down in reaction to your incoming torpedoes. In stock I was only able to kill them with torps by trapping them within a spread normally 3 torps fired in a spread. One to each side and one in the center will force them to take one hit if you have a good solution and are in close enough.

I would suggesting either using a mod like Ship’s Acceleration Physics or OTC or some other mod that corrects for the race car maneuverability of the escorts.

Another less realistic way to take out the escorts is just to kill them running on the surface using your deck gun. Engage at range (4500-8500), run at full speed away from them and target the forward guns. They will close in one your position but it normally only takes a few hits to sink them (have good crew members with the best gunnery skills at the deck gun).

05-11-16, 05:34 PM	#1
VIPer530 Watch Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 16 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	No way I hit a destroyer Hi everyone, I'm on my 2nd patrol, so I still consider myself quite green. I'm using TMO with maximum realistic settings, no other mods. Anyway, I found a single destroyer, Mutsuki or whatever the name was, or well, I think he rather found me. After playing defence for about 2 hours I managed to escape undamaged, and I felt like playing offence for a change. Let's not discuss if that was a good call, the point is: The weather is perfect, clear sky, noon, no wind. Perfect conditions to spot incoming torpedos. Under these conditions there is literally NO WAY I can hit the destroyer with a single torpedo or a spread of two torpedos. The propblem is not that I wouldn't hit, neither am I getting duds, he simply evades every bullet I fire. Is he one of these matrix guys? Joking aside... I saved the game and then ran a series of attempts from the following position: I'm at periscope depth, roughly 2100 yards off his starboard side, pretty much exactly at his 090. He's at a dead stop, firing flares (hell knows why, in the middle of the day...). I fire at the centre of his ship... he accelerates, I miss astern. I fire at his bow... he accelerates, I miss astern. I fire at the tip of his bow... he accelerates, I miss astern. I fire at a point ahead of him... you can guess it... So, no way I can hit with just one torpedo. Allright, let's use two. I fire one at his ship, the second one 2 degrees ahead of him... He accelerates, torpedo with the 2 degrees lead misses astern. Second one with 3 degrees lead... He accelerates earlies, I miss astern. I could continue... So whatever I do, he acts against the torpedo that is the most demanding for him in terms of acceleration. It also does not matter which one I fire first. He will always react just in time to evade the one that's most "in front" with respect to his course. If I give the second one too much of a lead, he will accelerate much later, then the first will miss astern, and the second one will pass him on his bow. My distance to him also has no impact. I ran another trial and I could not hit him from < 700 yards! I haven't tried salvoes with more than 2 torpedos yet, but I would guess I get the same result. Sooooo, question: Is there a way to hit (other than perhaps pure luck) in these weather and daylight conditions and am I just too stupid to figure it out? Or is it, the way the AI is programmed, just an extremely stupid idea to attack him at all? Thanks for your opinions and / or support!

05-11-16, 07:20 PM	#2
Crannogman Watch Officer Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 343 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Open range to 8500 yards, engage with deck gun. Seriously though, try using more torpedoes. A 3-4 fish spread seems to be the minimum for success. You're actually in luck, if he's stopped you don't have to waste any shots behind him (a moving ship you would have to allow for him slowing down). You could also figure out his length and then do some trig to figure the max spread angle that allows you place a torpedo every hull length for some distance. You should definitely be able to hit him with no more than 3 torps at 700y. Edit: per my iPhone calculations, a mutsuki takes up 2.7 degrees at 2100y and 8.5 degrees at 700y, so that should be your spread. Or you can measure it with your periscope, but that may vary with your mod __________________ "The sea shall ride over her and she shall live in it like a duck" ~John Ericsson Last edited by Crannogman; 05-11-16 at 07:39 PM.

05-11-16, 08:10 PM	#3
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	What we used to do with SH1: Go to flank speed. Raise your periscope (which they couldn't do in real life - too much vibration). Run away. He'll see your scope and chase you. Fire a stern tube at about 750 yards. He can't evade, especially if it's under his keel and magnetic. Go deep and turn, just in case. Not realistic at all, but works most of the time. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

05-12-16, 02:00 PM	#6
lukterran Loader Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 84 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Destroyers are really hard to hit in the stock, they are normally not worth wasting torps on. Just avoid them. In the game their movement and physics aren't simulated correctly, so they have the ability to dodge and speed up and slow down in reaction to your incoming torpedoes. In stock I was only able to kill them with torps by trapping them within a spread normally 3 torps fired in a spread. One to each side and one in the center will force them to take one hit if you have a good solution and are in close enough. I would suggesting either using a mod like Ship’s Acceleration Physics or OTC or some other mod that corrects for the race car maneuverability of the escorts. Another less realistic way to take out the escorts is just to kill them running on the surface using your deck gun. Engage at range (4500-8500), run at full speed away from them and target the forward guns. They will close in one your position but it normally only takes a few hits to sink them (have good crew members with the best gunnery skills at the deck gun).