Kim Davis Jailed

Armistead · 09-05-15, 08:11 PM

Seems to be a big story, so what say you guys. Does her religious beliefs trump civil rights law.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/03/po...l?eref=edition

Onkel Neal · 09-05-15, 08:12 PM

Hasn't she been married something like 4 times? No story here.

Armistead · 09-05-15, 08:56 PM

Yes, she has, but because she got saved {again} her sin doesn't count. However, it's not sin being the issue, it's becoming a debate do a person's religious rights trump another person's civil rights. Should we allow people such as her religious accomodations.

Torplexed · 09-05-15, 09:13 PM

I believe Americans do have the right to refuse to perform a service if they feel doing so would violate their religious or political beliefs, their morality etc. They just have to be willing to accept the fact there may be legal consequences for doing so. While I don't agree with this woman's position (I think the law is clear) I don't have a big problem with a county clerk here or there who says, "I'm sorry I can't do this, I resign." But on the other hand, you don't get to collect the wages of sin ($80,000 a year in a rural county) while taking a stand for holiness, which is what she is doing right now.

However, one reason she's not resigning of course is that her position as county clerk has become something of a hereditary office. Her predecessor was her mother and she's got her son waiting in the wings. Louis XVI was similarly situated. It did not work out entirely well for him.

Kptlt. Neuerburg · 09-05-15, 10:05 PM

I was wondering how long it would take before someone brought this up. As I see it while she has the right to practice her religious beliefs at home or in a place of worship, I'm not entirely sure she has the right to do so as a federal employee who has sworn to uphold the law which is this case is that a homosexual marriage is legal in all fifty states and like Torplexed said the law is pretty clear on this. On the other hand if she thought that issuing a marriage license to a gay couple goes against her religion and her beliefs why didn't she resign or at least change her job to something less "offensive" those beliefs?

Also I'm not sure that the issue of gay marriage should of become a political issue unless maybe we put it a national vote like Ireland did, although it would be very unlikely that would of ever happened.

Buddahaid · 09-05-15, 10:29 PM

It's simple really. If her religious beliefs are in conflict with her performing her job she should step down, or let someone else in the office do it.

As it is she should be fired for refusing to do as ordered.

vienna · 09-08-15, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

...However, one reason she's not resigning of course is that her position as county clerk has become something of a hereditary office. Her predecessor was her mother and she's got her son waiting in the wings. Louis XVI was similarly situated. It did not work out entirely well for him.

So, are you suggesting the issue may come to a head?...

<O>

Bubblehead1980 · 09-08-15, 03:19 PM

Free at last, Free at Last!

I find her religious views silly and devoid of facts.However, the big picture issue is the Supreme Court made an illegitimate political populist decision instead of following the constitution.Then a tyrannical federal judge jailed a woman for following her religious convictions., her christian convictions in particular.

I am sure they would not have done this to a muslim, especially with a sympathetic ear at 1600.

Anyways, she is a brave woman to go to jail for her religious beliefs which are actually protected under the US Constitution, have to admire that.

Rockstar · 09-06-15, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

Yes, she has, but because she got saved {again} her sin doesn't count. However, it's not sin being the issue, it's becoming a debate do a person's religious rights trump another person's civil rights. Should we allow people such as her religious accomodations.

Not in this instance. If its against her religion then she needs to find another job or go to jail. I find it odd too for a religion so anti-law (pro grace) they sure make things hard on others for not following the very thing they have forsaken.

Aktungbby · 09-06-15, 12:44 PM

In any case they have to impeach her now for really dueling in violation of her oath of office

vs

Platapus · 09-06-15, 01:20 PM

Being a professional is not just being paid for something. It is agreeing to abide by a common set of ethics associated with the other professionals in the same field... even if they conflict with a person's personal ethics.

Members of the military have dealt with this for centuries. When I was in the military, I certainly provided support and in some cases actively participated in operations that were in direct conflict with my personal ethics. As a professional, I understood the importance of putting my personal ethics aside in favour of my professional ethics.

If a profession's ethics conflict sufficiently with a person's personal ethics, that person should not voluntarily participate in that profession.

But once you accept "the queens shilling", you are agreeing to abide by that profession's ethics. This is especially true in public service.

The public MUST have confidence that the people in the profession of public service carry out their duties according to law/regulations. We can not have people accepting public money and then deciding whether their personal or public service ethics take precedence.

People need to understand that performing a duty does not imply a personal acceptance or non acceptance of that duty or its effects.

09-05-15, 08:11 PM	#1
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Kim Davis Jailed Seems to be a big story, so what say you guys. Does her religious beliefs trump civil rights law. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/03/po...l?eref=edition __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

09-05-15, 08:12 PM	#2
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,386 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	Hasn't she been married something like 4 times? No story here. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

09-05-15, 08:56 PM	#3
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Yes, she has, but because she got saved {again} her sin doesn't count. However, it's not sin being the issue, it's becoming a debate do a person's religious rights trump another person's civil rights. Should we allow people such as her religious accomodations. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

09-05-15, 09:13 PM	#4
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I believe Americans do have the right to refuse to perform a service if they feel doing so would violate their religious or political beliefs, their morality etc. They just have to be willing to accept the fact there may be legal consequences for doing so. While I don't agree with this woman's position (I think the law is clear) I don't have a big problem with a county clerk here or there who says, "I'm sorry I can't do this, I resign." But on the other hand, you don't get to collect the wages of sin ($80,000 a year in a rural county) while taking a stand for holiness, which is what she is doing right now. However, one reason she's not resigning of course is that her position as county clerk has become something of a hereditary office. Her predecessor was her mother and she's got her son waiting in the wings. Louis XVI was similarly situated. It did not work out entirely well for him. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

09-05-15, 10:05 PM	#5
Kptlt. Neuerburg Admiral Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 2,282 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	I was wondering how long it would take before someone brought this up. As I see it while she has the right to practice her religious beliefs at home or in a place of worship, I'm not entirely sure she has the right to do so as a federal employee who has sworn to uphold the law which is this case is that a homosexual marriage is legal in all fifty states and like Torplexed said the law is pretty clear on this. On the other hand if she thought that issuing a marriage license to a gay couple goes against her religion and her beliefs why didn't she resign or at least change her job to something less "offensive" those beliefs? Also I'm not sure that the issue of gay marriage should of become a political issue unless maybe we put it a national vote like Ireland did, although it would be very unlikely that would of ever happened. __________________ "When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat." - George Carlin Last edited by Kptlt. Neuerburg; 09-05-15 at 10:15 PM.

09-05-15, 10:29 PM	#6
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,337 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	It's simple really. If her religious beliefs are in conflict with her performing her job she should step down, or let someone else in the office do it. As it is she should be fired for refusing to do as ordered. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

09-08-15, 03:19 PM	#8
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,197 Downloads: 621 Uploads: 44	Free at last, Free at Last! I find her religious views silly and devoid of facts.However, the big picture issue is the Supreme Court made an illegitimate political populist decision instead of following the constitution.Then a tyrannical federal judge jailed a woman for following her religious convictions., her christian convictions in particular. I am sure they would not have done this to a muslim, especially with a sympathetic ear at 1600. Anyways, she is a brave woman to go to jail for her religious beliefs which are actually protected under the US Constitution, have to admire that.

09-06-15, 12:44 PM	#10
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 30,151 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	In any case they have to impeach her now for really dueling in violation of her oath of office vs __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

09-06-15, 01:20 PM	#11
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,442 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Being a professional is not just being paid for something. It is agreeing to abide by a common set of ethics associated with the other professionals in the same field... even if they conflict with a person's personal ethics. Members of the military have dealt with this for centuries. When I was in the military, I certainly provided support and in some cases actively participated in operations that were in direct conflict with my personal ethics. As a professional, I understood the importance of putting my personal ethics aside in favour of my professional ethics. If a profession's ethics conflict sufficiently with a person's personal ethics, that person should not voluntarily participate in that profession. But once you accept "the queens shilling", you are agreeing to abide by that profession's ethics. This is especially true in public service. The public MUST have confidence that the people in the profession of public service carry out their duties according to law/regulations. We can not have people accepting public money and then deciding whether their personal or public service ethics take precedence. People need to understand that performing a duty does not imply a personal acceptance or non acceptance of that duty or its effects. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.