Russia's navy is falling apart

[Onkel Neal]

http://theweek.com/articles/572496/r...-falling-apart

They're outdated, prone to mechanical breakdowns, and wickedly uncomfortable for their crews — especially compared to the latest U.S., European, and Chinese ships. Washington alone builds roughly eight new warships a year, including a brand-new nuclear carrier every four or five years.

[Archibald]

Yes, that incident I remembered last year.

[CCIP]

I think it's overstating things a bit, particularly as far as dependence on Ukraine for heavy machinery (there is some truth to it, though). The real problem is the scope of the Russian government's ambitions, which is at odds with the resources they have and the infrastructural problems they face. Geography makes Russia's navy incredibly complicated to keep up by default. But truthfully, the numbers of big ships are not really a measure of effectiveness. Russia doesn't need ships like the Kuznetsov, for one. The recent announcement that they're looking to build direct replacement for the Kirovs is madness and for their own good, it better not actually happen. The order of Mistrals was a smart one, but then they had to go and mess up the politics.

In truth, things are not universally bad. The Northern Fleet's infrastructure has gradually improved and it seems like they're gradually getting submarines back to where they need to be. The Black Sea fleet, relatively speaking, is probably at its strongest ever - and in that sense, the annexation of Crimea has only helped. In the Pacific, I think Russia resigned to not having to be a player for the moment. They do have a few things to work out in the Baltic though. Otherwise, it's not a big change from Soviet times. Russia never had an effective blue water navy, and this remains true today. All their attempts to correct it have been expensive and incredibly flawed.

What Russia needs is a reality check. They need to stop trying to play the role of empire and temper their military ambitions to their actual resources. Then they would be doing more than fine. But it would also be foolish for anyone to assume that the Russian navy has no bite left.

[ikalugin]

Well those articles come out every so often. In reality the situation is not as grim (or optimistic). The question is - would Navy receive all of its money allocated under GPV2020, or would it suffer cuts?

Russian Navy however does face challenges with ocean going major surface combatants, which cannot be replaced before 2020. That said, our priorities were always deterence->coastal defense-> power projection, hence SSBNs (and relevant supporting assets), close in area ships (frigates, corvetes, ssks) have a priority in short to medium term.

You could see that in borei construction, refurbishment of Black Sea Navy. Overall GPV2020 gives us an adequate minimal force, in 2020-2030 timeline we may build major ships.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by CCIP

What Russia needs is a reality check. They need to stop trying to play the role of empire and temper their military ambitions to their actual resources. Then they would be doing more than fine. But it would also be foolish for anyone to assume that the Russian navy has no bite left.

Aye, totally agree

[ikalugin]

What Russia needs is a reality check. They need to stop trying to play the role of empire and temper their military ambitions to their actual resources. Then they would be doing more than fine. But it would also be foolish for anyone to assume that the Russian navy has no bite left.

The view is that should we do it, we would loose the "empire" and get reduced to a small failed state in Europe. Hence having strong armed forces, capable of projecting power beyound our border is viewed as matter of physical survival.

However, in a way I do agree, we should prioritise some things over others and that is what we are doing in reality (ie we were not actually trying to build major surface combatants such as cruisers and carriers), even though rhetoric is going about all the nuclear powered cruisers and carriers.

[Kapitan]

Personally I think Russia needs to down size, I know it is a bitter pill to swallow however the thing that makes them break the bank is the fact they have multiple types of different warships doing the same jobs.

If you look at the Russian navy you have 2 or 3 types of frigate / corvette doing ASW work and 3 or 4 types of warships doing ASUW work.

The current budget for the Russian navy is $86bn due to rise to $96bn next year.

My view is this and I know its drastic and I know it would upset a lot of people in the kremlin:

Scrap the overhaul of the Kirov class cruisers and lay up peter the great,
Scrap the slava class cruisers and also scrap the kuznetsov

Focus on building more Gorshkov frigates then proceed to finalise a single DDG design to complement the gorshkov.

Scrap the tranutul and nanchuka's scrap the Oscar II the Victor III Delta IV and early akulas replace with the Yasen and Borei

mine warfare units replace with a single design and utilise them as patrol craft for coastal patrol also

Reality is Russia could do with a fleet size like this (don't forget spread over 5 fleets)

25 DDG's
40 FFG's
40 Corvettes
50 submarines (both nuclear and conventional including 12 SSBN's)
10 LPD / LPH

Don't need a carrier pay the debts off scrap the older vessels save some money then come back to it in the future