Ugh.

Sniper297 · 12-13-14, 12:06 AM

Still playing with trying to get my idea of balance into this game;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Naka

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Kuma

Nearly identical light cruisers from the same era. Both of these light cruisers have the same armor, 30CM, but the Kuma has 400 hit points, Naka has 2160. Fuso has 800 hit points, unless someone knows a reason why the Naka has more hit points than a battleship I'm going to assume that's an error and correct it.

TorpX · 12-13-14, 01:01 AM

Yes, I stumbled upon that when I was doing ISP.

And yes, I figure it must be a typo. Either that, or someone was a big fan of the Naka-class.

torpedobait · 12-13-14, 09:34 AM

Can you point an amateur to the directory where I could find those hit points? Thanks!

TorpX · 12-13-14, 06:26 PM

In the Sea folder, the folders for the individual ships have *.zon files. You need S3d to open these. They have the hit point for the hulls of the ships. However, there are a multitude of defined zones within these ships, and the hit points and data for those are in a file zones.cfg, located elsewhere.

A ship might have 10,000 pts. for the hull, but only 50 or 100 for some of the floodable zones, and so still sink easily. Thus the matter is fairly complicated. The subs and merchants in RFB 2.0 are setup this way.

Sniper297 · 12-13-14, 07:42 PM

Specifically;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//dow...o=file&id=4489

Like most other utilities you browse in a windows explorer type interface to \WhereverYouGotIt\Silent Hunter 4 Wolves of the Pacific\Data\Sea\NCA_Maya\NCA_Maya.zon then start poking around to see what's what. In the Maya example down at the bottom under 32: CollisionableObject is 33: CollisionableObject (no idea why they do it that way) with a bunch of changeable values;

ArmorLevel = 60
Hit_Points = 500
CrashDepth = 300
CrashSpeed = 0.5
Rebound = 0.45

What exactly rebound is for is a mystery, supposedly physics governing how it bounces off something, but every ship has the exact same value. In a sub CrashDepth is the maximum depth an undamaged sub can submerge to without getting damage, below that depth it will start losing X hit points per second, X being the CrashSpeed value. If it works the same way with surface ships this heavy cruiser could sink to a depth of 990 feet with no problem, below 990 feet it would start losing half a hit point per second.

Which obviously makes zero sense since a surface ship 1000 feet deep is already sunk so what's the point. I experimented with reducing the CrashDepth for assorted surface ships to 3 or 5 or whatever, but then they start breaking up and sinking due to wave action in heavy weather, so that was a dead end. You can, however, reduce the Armor to 10 and hit points to 50 in order to sink a Maya with the deck gun, or whatever kind of tweaking - sorry, can't resist - WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR BOAT!

I love puns.

Reason I used Maya as an example is last night, in a career I hit a Maya with 3 fish, which left it half submerged and making the screeching groaning breaking up collapsing bulkhead noises. Which went on and on and on with no further apparent damage, so I set up a test mission to see if I could fix that problem - and in the test mission I can't duplicate it, because the same unmodified Maya that takes 2 to 4 torpedoes to sink in a career will blow up with one torpedo in a single mission.

If a ship has the entire main deck underwater and is howling and screaming with collapsing bulkheads and tortured metal noises, it OUGHT to SINK, but trying to get there with no reliable way to test it is like trying to get milk from a male ostrich.

Sniper297 · 12-13-14, 08:35 PM

Reloaded the save game, fired one more fish, making four - it missed. Whiskey Tango Fox, this thing;

Is dead in the water and by all that's holy should be sunk, yet the TDC claims it's going 8 knots.

Finally got disgusted, blew tanks and finished it off with 3 shots from the deck gun.

In real life I could have sailed off and left it, if it didn't sink by itself one of the IJN destroyers would have finished it off (after removing the picture of the Emperor and possibly a few crewmen) since what's left wouldn't be worth towing home for repairs. One thing I liked about Microprose Silent Service series was you got credit for damaging ships that didn't sink, how Ubisoft could have missed that bit of realism is a mystery.

12-13-14, 12:06 AM	#1
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Ugh. Still playing with trying to get my idea of balance into this game; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Naka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Kuma Nearly identical light cruisers from the same era. Both of these light cruisers have the same armor, 30CM, but the Kuma has 400 hit points, Naka has 2160. Fuso has 800 hit points, unless someone knows a reason why the Naka has more hit points than a battleship I'm going to assume that's an error and correct it.

12-13-14, 01:01 AM	#2
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	Yes, I stumbled upon that when I was doing ISP. And yes, I figure it must be a typo. Either that, or someone was a big fan of the Naka-class.

12-13-14, 09:34 AM	#3
torpedobait Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,073 Downloads: 397 Uploads: 0	Can you point an amateur to the directory where I could find those hit points? Thanks! __________________ Run Silent, Run Deep, and Sink 'em All

12-13-14, 06:26 PM	#4
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	In the Sea folder, the folders for the individual ships have *.zon files. You need S3d to open these. They have the hit point for the hulls of the ships. However, there are a multitude of defined zones within these ships, and the hit points and data for those are in a file zones.cfg, located elsewhere. A ship might have 10,000 pts. for the hull, but only 50 or 100 for some of the floodable zones, and so still sink easily. Thus the matter is fairly complicated. The subs and merchants in RFB 2.0 are setup this way.

12-13-14, 07:42 PM	#5
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Specifically; http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//dow...o=file&id=4489 Like most other utilities you browse in a windows explorer type interface to \WhereverYouGotIt\Silent Hunter 4 Wolves of the Pacific\Data\Sea\NCA_Maya\NCA_Maya.zon then start poking around to see what's what. In the Maya example down at the bottom under 32: CollisionableObject is 33: CollisionableObject (no idea why they do it that way) with a bunch of changeable values; ArmorLevel = 60 Hit_Points = 500 CrashDepth = 300 CrashSpeed = 0.5 Rebound = 0.45 What exactly rebound is for is a mystery, supposedly physics governing how it bounces off something, but every ship has the exact same value. In a sub CrashDepth is the maximum depth an undamaged sub can submerge to without getting damage, below that depth it will start losing X hit points per second, X being the CrashSpeed value. If it works the same way with surface ships this heavy cruiser could sink to a depth of 990 feet with no problem, below 990 feet it would start losing half a hit point per second. Which obviously makes zero sense since a surface ship 1000 feet deep is already sunk so what's the point. I experimented with reducing the CrashDepth for assorted surface ships to 3 or 5 or whatever, but then they start breaking up and sinking due to wave action in heavy weather, so that was a dead end. You can, however, reduce the Armor to 10 and hit points to 50 in order to sink a Maya with the deck gun, or whatever kind of tweaking - sorry, can't resist - WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR BOAT! I love puns. Reason I used Maya as an example is last night, in a career I hit a Maya with 3 fish, which left it half submerged and making the screeching groaning breaking up collapsing bulkhead noises. Which went on and on and on with no further apparent damage, so I set up a test mission to see if I could fix that problem - and in the test mission I can't duplicate it, because the same unmodified Maya that takes 2 to 4 torpedoes to sink in a career will blow up with one torpedo in a single mission. If a ship has the entire main deck underwater and is howling and screaming with collapsing bulkheads and tortured metal noises, it OUGHT to SINK, but trying to get there with no reliable way to test it is like trying to get milk from a male ostrich.

12-13-14, 08:35 PM	#6
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Reloaded the save game, fired one more fish, making four - it missed. Whiskey Tango Fox, this thing; Is dead in the water and by all that's holy should be sunk, yet the TDC claims it's going 8 knots. Finally got disgusted, blew tanks and finished it off with 3 shots from the deck gun. In real life I could have sailed off and left it, if it didn't sink by itself one of the IJN destroyers would have finished it off (after removing the picture of the Emperor and possibly a few crewmen) since what's left wouldn't be worth towing home for repairs. One thing I liked about Microprose Silent Service series was you got credit for damaging ships that didn't sink, how Ubisoft could have missed that bit of realism is a mystery.