fuel level gauge ,where?

[makman94]

hello guys,

i am looking for images showing the fuel level gauge of any ww2 u boat.

does anyone has images showing this gauge ?

all ...and all, i have found on net about it is the following pic but i am looking for different (if any) fuel level gauges that u boat used in ww2:

[CaptBones]

Hello makman;

If you're looking for one gauge that shows the total amount/percentage of fuel onboard, I suspect you're out of luck. The photo you posted shows the type of fuel gauges that were used to create the gauge we see in the game...they are on the two "gravity tanks" in the engine room that supplied fuel to the high-pressure fuel pumps on each engine. Only the fuel service tanks (or "Gravity Tanks") in the engine room would have that type of simple float gauge.

The fuel storage tanks (both internal and saddle tanks) were compensated fuel/ballast tanks and would always be "full". For remote reading you'd have to have sophisticated sensors that would identify the boundary between the fuel oil and the water in order to determine the level of fuel in the tanks. That device would also have to be able to function accurately in rough seas when the boundary between the two liquids is going to be turbulent. On top of that, there would also be gauges for each separate tank, so you still would not have a single "fuel gauge" for the boat.

I think the saddle tanks and the R1 fuel compensating tank in particular, did have a "local" gauge that was essentially a vertical water-glass connected to the tank at top and bottom, with high pressure shut-off valves.

The typical method of measuring the fuel in the inboard tanks was usually to insert a measuring tape or rod into a "sounding tube" in each storage tank. The tape/rod would be coated with a paste that reacted to water (the fuel floats on top of the water) and the depth of the fuel/water interface would be checked against a table that gave you the volume of the tank at that depth. There were also fuel level "Probes" in the system, which appear to be a series of petcocks that you would open to sample the contents of the tanks at various levels; you'd get water out of those below the level of the fuel and diesel oil out of those above the level of the fuel. That level in the tank would also be cross-referenced to the tables that gave the corresponding volume of fuel in the tank. Remember, you're dealing with fuel levels measured in tons and percentage burnable fuel onboard was the accuracy of the LI's daily fuel and water reports to the Kaleun.

[makman94]

Originally Posted by CaptBones

Hello makman;

If you're looking for one gauge that shows the total amount/percentage of fuel onboard, I suspect you're out of luck. The photo you posted shows the type of fuel gauges that were used to create the gauge we see in the game...they are on the two "gravity tanks" in the engine room that supplied fuel to the high-pressure fuel pumps on each engine. Only the fuel service tanks (or "Gravity Tanks") in the engine room would have that type of simple float gauge.

The fuel storage tanks (both internal and saddle tanks) were compensated fuel/ballast tanks and would always be "full". For remote reading you'd have to have sophisticated sensors that would identify the boundary between the fuel oil and the water in order to determine the level of fuel in the tanks. That device would also have to be able to function accurately in rough seas when the boundary between the two liquids is going to be turbulent. On top of that, there would also be gauges for each separate tank, so you still would not have a single "fuel gauge" for the boat.

I think the saddle tanks and the R1 fuel compensating tank in particular, did have a "local" gauge that was essentially a vertical water-glass connected to the tank at top and bottom, with high pressure shut-off valves.

The typical method of measuring the fuel in the inboard tanks was usually to insert a measuring tape or rod into a "sounding tube" in each storage tank. The tape/rod would be coated with a paste that reacted to water (the fuel floats on top of the water) and the depth of the fuel/water interface would be checked against a table that gave you the volume of the tank at that depth. There were also fuel level "Probes" in the system, which appear to be a series of petcocks that you would open to sample the contents of the tanks at various levels; you'd get water out of those below the level of the fuel and diesel oil out of those above the level of the fuel. That level in the tank would also be cross-referenced to the tables that gave the corresponding volume of fuel in the tank. Remember, you're dealing with fuel levels measured in tons and percentage burnable fuel onboard was the accuracy of the LI's daily fuel and water reports to the Kaleun.

hello CaptBones,

so ,if i got you right ,you are saying that the game is using a faulty gauge for showing the fuel level, right ?

i am about to redesign the spoken gauge so , as i understand from your post, i can follow a free design route (as such a gauge doesn't ever existed).

ps: is there any chance, you have any pic or source showing something of these measures they made for getting the left diesel capacity ?

thank you very much for this very interesting info you posted here !

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by makman94

hello CaptBones,

so ,if i got you right ,you are saying that the game is using a faulty gauge for showing the fuel level, right ?

i am about to redesign the spoken gauge so , as i understand from your post, i can follow a free design route (as such a gauge doesn't ever existed).

ps: is there any chance, you have any pic or source showing something of these measures they made for getting the left diesel capacity ?

thank you very much for this very interesting info you posted here !

Makman, the float glass has a very "WW2 U-boat" feel. I hope you will do something that retains the same vintage analog feel. Maybe a float glass with an inverted scale, so that the level of water rises as the Diesel oil is consumed? (Just a wild thought.) IIRC, SH5 uses circular dials located near the engine room overhead. Like much of SH5, too modern for my taste.

[CaptBones]

Hello again makman,

Well, the gauge that's used in the game isn't necessarily "faulty"; it's a faithful replication of the gauges that were actually used on the two "Gravity Tanks" in the engine room, as shown in your photo. It's just that there was no such single gauge to display the total fuel level on the boat.

As BigWalleye noted, it has the correct "feel" and making it an inverted reading gauge glass as he suggests would be an interesting modification; 100% [full] at the bottom and 0% [empty] at the top....I like that idea.

As an alternative, at "uboat.net" there are a couple of photos of the U-995's Command Room that show a tall gauge glass on the starboard side between the Papenberg (sp?) gauge and the air manifold. To me, it looks like that is a gauge glass for the starboard saddle tank. Reading it would probably be simple, the boundary between the water and fuel oil would be very clearly visible. It wouldn't be that different from the existing float gauge, just bigger (taller) and easier to read. You could even delete the float and just make the fluids above and below the level of the float two different colors...oil above and water below. BTW, in that photo of U-995, it looks like they have either filled that glass with something that closely resembles marine diesel fuel oil, or painted it inside to look like it's full of fuel.

As a personal "aside", if I was the LI or Kaleun of a boat with that type of large gauge glass connected to an external fuel/ballast tank (or even an internal tank), the shut-off valves on that gauge would be closed and the gauge would be drained to the bilge every time we dived. I would not be happy to have it broken/shattered in a depth charge attack, or to even risk having it crack/break due to the water pressure in a deep dive. I'd be willing to bet that was part of the diving procedure, which you could mimic by making any reading of the fuel gauge impossible while submerged.

Other than that, my personal preference would be to eliminate it and replace it with a "Daily Fuel and Water Report" from the LI to the Kaleun. At noon ("12 O'clock Reports"), or at 2000 ("Eight O'clock Reports"), or even at midnight, a text message or maybe a pop-up "note" from the LI would appear in the Capt's Log, giving the percentage of fuel remaining onboard (and percentage burned [or lost!] since the last report). The input parameter already appears to be there, because the scale on the right side of the existing float gauge is marked in 5% increments that the middle of the little "cork" float follows as fuel is consumed. The "Water" part of that report would not have to be any more complicated than a randomly-generated percentage of potable water onboard, starting up around 90% at the start of the patrol and decreasing steadily down to not less than 20% as the patrol dragged on, would be "realistic" enough.

Regarding your last question...somewhere or other I remember seeing photos and/or illustrations of a sounding tube cover, sounding tape and a rod, along with illustrated instructions on how to apply the paste and take the measurement. But for the life of me, I don't remember where I saw that. Just for the fun of it, I'll look through some of my old technical manuals and training manuals and see if it's there....just don't hold your breath waiting for it.

You're quite welcome; it's nice to see there are still Modders out there working on more improvements to SH3...there's still life in the Ol' Girl!

[makman94]

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

Makman, the float glass has a very "WW2 U-boat" feel. I hope you will do something that retains the same vintage analog feel. Maybe a float glass with an inverted scale, so that the level of water rises as the Diesel oil is consumed? (Just a wild thought.) IIRC, SH5 uses circular dials located near the engine room overhead. Like much of SH5, too modern for my taste.

hello BigWalleye,

i agree that it has a nice feel the spoken gauge and of course i will keep it like this. i was just searching if there was any different design for this gauge on the various types of uboats.
i ,also , like the idea of the inverted scale as this makes the gauge working more closely to the way of the real diesel level capacities (as CaptBones described above).
i will do it that way then

Originally Posted by CaptBones

Hello again makman,

Well, the gauge that's used in the game isn't necessarily "faulty"; it's a faithful replication of the gauges that were actually used on the two "Gravity Tanks" in the engine room, as shown in your photo. It's just that there was no such single gauge to display the total fuel level on the boat.

As BigWalleye noted, it has the correct "feel" and making it an inverted reading gauge glass as he suggests would be an interesting modification; 100% [full] at the bottom and 0% [empty] at the top....I like that idea.

hello CaptBones,
yes i like that idea too, i will make it this way

Originally Posted by CaptBones

As an alternative, at "uboat.net" there are a couple of photos of the U-995's Command Room that show a tall gauge glass on the starboard side between the Papenberg (sp?) gauge and the air manifold. To me, it looks like that is a gauge glass for the starboard saddle tank. Reading it would probably be simple, the boundary between the water and fuel oil would be very clearly visible. It wouldn't be that different from the existing float gauge, just bigger (taller) and easier to read. You could even delete the float and just make the fluids above and below the level of the float two different colors...oil above and water below. BTW, in that photo of U-995, it looks like they have either filled that glass with something that closely resembles marine diesel fuel oil, or painted it inside to look like it's full of fuel.

i can't change the way the gauge works. this is hardcoded stuff and needs moddings to executables files for achieving such results. all that i can do is just redesign and tweak the existing way that the gauge works

Originally Posted by CaptBones

As a personal "aside", if I was the LI or Kaleun of a boat with that type of large gauge glass connected to an external fuel/ballast tank (or even an internal tank), the shut-off valves on that gauge would be closed and the gauge would be drained to the bilge every time we dived. I would not be happy to have it broken/shattered in a depth charge attack, or to even risk having it crack/break due to the water pressure in a deep dive. I'd be willing to bet that was part of the diving procedure, which you could mimic by making any reading of the fuel gauge impossible while submerged.

i never envolved to 3d parts of the game ( and to tell you the truth , i never look at any of the 3d dials during playing) and i don't know what can (or not) be tweaked there

Originally Posted by CaptBones

Other than that, my personal preference would be to eliminate it and replace it with a "Daily Fuel and Water Report" from the LI to the Kaleun. At noon ("12 O'clock Reports"), or at 2000 ("Eight O'clock Reports"), or even at midnight, a text message or maybe a pop-up "note" from the LI would appear in the Capt's Log, giving the percentage of fuel remaining onboard (and percentage burned [or lost!] since the last report). The input parameter already appears to be there, because the scale on the right side of the existing float gauge is marked in 5% increments that the middle of the little "cork" float follows as fuel is consumed. The "Water" part of that report would not have to be any more complicated than a randomly-generated percentage of potable water onboard, starting up around 90% at the start of the patrol and decreasing steadily down to not less than 20% as the patrol dragged on, would be "realistic" enough.

a very interesting idea but i will repeat myself now ....hardcoded stuff which are beyond my knowledge

Originally Posted by CaptBones

.....
Just for the fun of it, I'll look through some of my old technical manuals and training manuals and see if it's there....just don't hold your breath waiting for it.

no rush at all
if you ever find anything ,please share

Originally Posted by CaptBones

You're quite welcome; it's nice to see there are still Modders out there working on more improvements to SH3...there's still life in the Ol' Girl!

i don't know if sh3 has 'life' or not, but for me it has still its interest (i guess till the day that a real good sub simulator show up)
thank you too for these very interesting replies CaptBones