Where am I going wrong?

Turbulent · 08-01-14, 11:13 AM

Apologies if this has all been asked before (I am sure it has) but after trawling through the four pages of this sub-forum and perusing the rather excellent tutorials abound on here, I am still a bit stuck in my game play. I should start at the beginning:

I only started playing Silent Hunter 3 (vanilla - no mods applied) about a week ago (I bought it aaaages ago and did the tutorial, but then my studies got in the way

) and decided that although it seemed like hubris, 100% realism from the off was the way to go for me. The big attraction of the game is getting that realistic experience, and this seems like the best way to go about it. Now, after said week and a half, I have gotten to the point where I am competent when it comes to tracking ships and convoys. I can line myself up for shots rather well too if I may say so myself, frequently getting about 1-2 kms in front of a ship and at right angles to its path. So far so good! However, then the attack begins...

I just can't seem to hit anything. I range the ship by putting the bottom line of my periscope on the waterline and the top line on top of the masts, I estimate the angle on the bow and I take a couple of speed checks until I am satisfied. I wait for the gyro angle to be close to zero, open the tubes and fire, but the torpedo seems to aim for where the ship is at that moment and not where the ship will be. Can anybody please shed light on this frustrating issue? BdU must be getting sick of me; I have sunk some shipping using the deck gun but I am expending torpedo after torpedo for no success!

Thanks for any replies

maillemaker · 08-01-14, 12:07 PM

Kudos to 100% realism.

I would recommend playing with map contacts on until you get the hang of things.

The map contacts on allows you to understand precisely the relationship of the target to your boat, and it allows you to know precisely the target speed, by using the 3 minute 15 second measurement on the map. With this information you can input virtually exact information into the TDC and have confidence that your data is good.

If you are shooting with a 000 gyro angle, then the torpedo will fly straight out from your sub. Thus if the target is moving right-to-left, you will have to move the periscope to the right of 0 bearing to lead the target. Likewise if it is moving left-to-right, you will have to point the scope to the left of 0 bearing to lead the target.

My first thought is that you are setting the AoB incorrectly on the TDC. This is easy to do - I sometimes screw it up on attacks even now and have wasted more than one torpedo that way.

The AoB is the angle from the bow of the target to you. If you are doing a 90 degree shot, then you will point to 90 starboard if your boat is to the right of the target's heading, and you will point it to 90 port if your boat is to the left of the target's heading. If you set this backwards, your torpedo will fire in the wrong direction with "reverse lead".

If you know the target speed and you approach at 90 degrees, a hit is virtually assured against merchant ships or warships when using electric torpedoes. Warships can see and will actively try to dodge steam torpedoes.

Steve

Theodulus · 08-01-14, 12:57 PM

When I first started playing the game, I was forgetting to hit the final check box on the notepad to send the data to the TDC. So once you find range, AOB, and speed, hit the check box at the bottom and you should see the gyro-angle change to something more appropriate.

GoldenRivet · 08-01-14, 05:09 PM

If you're in a decent firing position slightly ahead of and to the port or Starboard of the target and your entered all of the parameters into your solution correctly there's no need to wait until the Gyro angle reaches zero.

If you shoot immediately after entering your solution the torpedo will automatically turn and steer an intercept course for the target

in_vino_vomitus · 08-02-14, 05:27 AM

I don't play SHIII so I feel almost as if I oughtn't to be posting here, but shooting is shooting after all. I can't comment on the actual interface controls, but if you enter all the target data [range; speed; AoB] and the torpedo goes straight ahead when fired, then it sounds like somehow, the target data isn't getting to the torpedo. If I find the thread I'll edit the link in, but I saw recently on the SHIV forum a table of speed offsets for leading a target when using zero gyro angle shots. Should work for you in SHIII because the physics doesn't change. How about loading up the torpedo training mission and playing around with the controls so's you know that they're all working as they should? Maybe enter a speed of ten knots for a stationary target and then aim off to hit it, or practice firing with extreme gyro angles - After all, when circumstances compel you to shoot at a 90 degree gyro angle [which they will, eventually] you don't want that time to be your first.

A couple of techniques that are worth your time are RR's Fast 90 and the Vector analysis method. The latter one will work with any sim and I can't see the former not working in SHIII.

If all of this is already known to you then I apologise for taking your time. it sounds to me like you may be making a simple mistake somewhere, that you'll kick yourself for when you spot it. Something I do pretty frequently

Good hunting.....

P.S., until you work it out, try saving the game before shooting - then you can go back and look for the reasons why you missed - assuming that's what happens....

BigWalleye · 08-02-14, 06:14 AM

Could it be something as simple as not switching the TVR back to Auto-update after you have entered the firing data?

I agree that the best way to find the problem, and improve your technique, is to whang away at the "ducks" in the training mission. Whatever tactic you use, if you can consistently hit the targets in the training mission, you'll feel more confident when you try to do it in an operational setting. Fluckey recounts spending hours in the attack simulator at New London, even talking about some of his officers stopping by late one Saturday night after an evening out, with the wives in tow! (Kids, don't try this at home!

)

Zosimus · 08-02-14, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbulent

Apologies if this has all been asked before (I am sure it has) but after trawling through the four pages of this sub-forum and perusing the rather excellent tutorials abound on here, I am still a bit stuck in my game play. I should start at the beginning:

I only started playing Silent Hunter 3 (vanilla - no mods applied) about a week ago (I bought it aaaages ago and did the tutorial, but then my studies got in the way

) and decided that although it seemed like hubris, 100% realism from the off was the way to go for me. The big attraction of the game is getting that realistic experience, and this seems like the best way to go about it. Now, after said week and a half, I have gotten to the point where I am competent when it comes to tracking ships and convoys. I can line myself up for shots rather well too if I may say so myself, frequently getting about 1-2 kms in front of a ship and at right angles to its path. So far so good! However, then the attack begins...

I just can't seem to hit anything. I range the ship by putting the bottom line of my periscope on the waterline and the top line on top of the masts, I estimate the angle on the bow and I take a couple of speed checks until I am satisfied. I wait for the gyro angle to be close to zero, open the tubes and fire, but the torpedo seems to aim for where the ship is at that moment and not where the ship will be. Can anybody please shed light on this frustrating issue? BdU must be getting sick of me; I have sunk some shipping using the deck gun but I am expending torpedo after torpedo for no success!

Thanks for any replies

I just want to mention that there are more than 4 pages. At the bottom you should find options to show messages.

If you change the view parameter to the beginning, as you can see, there are over 500 pages of forum that you can read.

desirableroasted · 08-02-14, 10:53 PM

The others have provided excellent advice.

When you get your problem sorted, you should investigate and upgrade to one of the supermods (GWX, NYGM) pretty quickly.

Vanilla, unfortunately, teaches you a lot of bad tactical habits: the torpedoes and deck gun shells are over-powered, the merchants are flimsier, the escorts are manned by pre-schoolers, the British have not discovered mines, etc, etc.

If you wait until you are *really* good at Vanilla, you may find yourself having to unlearn as much as you learn when you go to a supermod.

Good hunting! It's a great game.

Turbulent · 08-03-14, 12:13 PM

Thanks all!

Unbelievably, I think that the problem was the 'ticking the final box' solution proposed by Theodulus. I am kicking myself

I have only managed to find a spare hour this weekend to even play the game, and the only ship I found was despatched by deck gun to save torpedos so still not had chance to try out the advice offered here. I'm sure I will meet with more success in future!

Regarding the mods, which comes recommended in terms of realism? I have looked into the Grey Wolves mod and that looks quite good, though I am worried as whenever I have tried installing mods for previous games it has gone horribly wrong for me, but with the help of you guys I am sure I will meet with more success this time!

in_vino_vomitus · 08-03-14, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbulent

Thanks all!

Unbelievably, I think that the problem was the 'ticking the final box' solution proposed by Theodulus. I am kicking myself

I have only managed to find a spare hour this weekend to even play the game, and the only ship I found was despatched by deck gun to save torpedos so still not had chance to try out the advice offered here. I'm sure I will meet with more success in future!

Regarding the mods, which comes recommended in terms of realism? I have looked into the Grey Wolves mod and that looks quite good, though I am worried as whenever I have tried installing mods for previous games it has gone horribly wrong for me, but with the help of you guys I am sure I will meet with more success this time!

Excellent

Here's to the sweet music of warhead detonation

maillemaker · 08-04-14, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Regarding the mods, which comes recommended in terms of realism? I have looked into the Grey Wolves mod

I have only ever used the Grey Wolves megamod, with a smattering of other mods. I am very pleased with GWX3.

desirableroasted · 08-04-14, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbulent

Regarding the mods, which comes recommended in terms of realism? I have looked into the Grey Wolves mod and that looks quite good, though I am worried as whenever I have tried installing mods for previous games it has gone horribly wrong for me, but with the help of you guys I am sure I will meet with more success this time!

Both are huge improvements over Vanilla, and both have their adherents. I ended up in the GWX tribe and love it. The manual alone is a thick text book on WWII sub warfare. Also, a lot of the good "little mods" are written with GWX in mind.

Installing it requires some attention to detail, but there are good instructions here, and if you ball it up, you won't have ruined anything -- just have to start over.

Have fun!

Jimbuna · 08-04-14, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

The others have provided excellent advice.

When you get your problem sorted, you should investigate and upgrade to one of the supermods (GWX, NYGM) pretty quickly.

Vanilla, unfortunately, teaches you a lot of bad tactical habits: the torpedoes and deck gun shells are over-powered, the merchants are flimsier, the escorts are manned by pre-schoolers, the British have not discovered mines, etc, etc.

If you wait until you are *really* good at Vanilla, you may find yourself having to unlearn as much as you learn when you go to a supermod.

Good hunting! It's a great game.

^ Great post

desirableroasted · 08-04-14, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

^ Great post

Thanks, COB! Means a lot coming from one of the team that has made this game such a winner.

Pisces · 08-05-14, 09:49 AM

If the issue still persists. Somehow the AOB setting or the Target speed setting is not transfered to the TDC. If AOB is still 0 it thinks the torpedo is comming straight for you, and it does not need to lead the target. Similarly, if target speed is set to 0 it thinks the target is stationary, and thus does not need to lead aswel. Using the notepad method you certainly need to press that "Send to TDC" button whenever you have measured good data. You can check what you have entered on the F6 TDC screen. By flipping the Auto update/Manual TDC switch you can even correct any wrong settings. Don't forget to set the switch back though. Make sure you do a range measurement just before you fire. If it is old it might not correctly account for a high gyroangle parallax. The TDC does not update the range when you drag the periscope around.

Opening the tubes does not have to be done right before firing. You can do that much sooner. But it must be done before you want to fire the torpedo, or else the torpedo will be delayed to the party.

08-01-14, 11:13 AM	#1
Turbulent Nub Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 4 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Where am I going wrong? Apologies if this has all been asked before (I am sure it has) but after trawling through the four pages of this sub-forum and perusing the rather excellent tutorials abound on here, I am still a bit stuck in my game play. I should start at the beginning: I only started playing Silent Hunter 3 (vanilla - no mods applied) about a week ago (I bought it aaaages ago and did the tutorial, but then my studies got in the way ) and decided that although it seemed like hubris, 100% realism from the off was the way to go for me. The big attraction of the game is getting that realistic experience, and this seems like the best way to go about it. Now, after said week and a half, I have gotten to the point where I am competent when it comes to tracking ships and convoys. I can line myself up for shots rather well too if I may say so myself, frequently getting about 1-2 kms in front of a ship and at right angles to its path. So far so good! However, then the attack begins... I just can't seem to hit anything. I range the ship by putting the bottom line of my periscope on the waterline and the top line on top of the masts, I estimate the angle on the bow and I take a couple of speed checks until I am satisfied. I wait for the gyro angle to be close to zero, open the tubes and fire, but the torpedo seems to aim for where the ship is at that moment and not where the ship will be. Can anybody please shed light on this frustrating issue? BdU must be getting sick of me; I have sunk some shipping using the deck gun but I am expending torpedo after torpedo for no success! Thanks for any replies

08-01-14, 05:09 PM	#4
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	If you're in a decent firing position slightly ahead of and to the port or Starboard of the target and your entered all of the parameters into your solution correctly there's no need to wait until the Gyro angle reaches zero. If you shoot immediately after entering your solution the torpedo will automatically turn and steer an intercept course for the target __________________

08-02-14, 05:27 AM	#5
in_vino_vomitus XO Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Preston, Lancs, UK Posts: 418 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	I don't play SHIII so I feel almost as if I oughtn't to be posting here, but shooting is shooting after all. I can't comment on the actual interface controls, but if you enter all the target data [range; speed; AoB] and the torpedo goes straight ahead when fired, then it sounds like somehow, the target data isn't getting to the torpedo. If I find the thread I'll edit the link in, but I saw recently on the SHIV forum a table of speed offsets for leading a target when using zero gyro angle shots. Should work for you in SHIII because the physics doesn't change. How about loading up the torpedo training mission and playing around with the controls so's you know that they're all working as they should? Maybe enter a speed of ten knots for a stationary target and then aim off to hit it, or practice firing with extreme gyro angles - After all, when circumstances compel you to shoot at a 90 degree gyro angle [which they will, eventually] you don't want that time to be your first. A couple of techniques that are worth your time are RR's Fast 90 and the Vector analysis method. The latter one will work with any sim and I can't see the former not working in SHIII. If all of this is already known to you then I apologise for taking your time. it sounds to me like you may be making a simple mistake somewhere, that you'll kick yourself for when you spot it. Something I do pretty frequently Good hunting..... P.S., until you work it out, try saving the game before shooting - then you can go back and look for the reasons why you missed - assuming that's what happens.... __________________ Forget death - I'll take dishonour! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] TMO 2.5 1.5 Optical Targeting Correction 031312 for TMO 2.5 1.5 OTC Realistic Scopes for TMO TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Disturbance_v2_0_SH4 Improved Stock environment v3_TMO&RFB TMO_Alt_engine-sounds TMO_Alternate_JS_Radar_performance TMO17_19_different_smoke

08-02-14, 06:14 AM	#6
BigWalleye Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: On the Eye-lond, mon! Posts: 1,987 Downloads: 465 Uploads: 0	Could it be something as simple as not switching the TVR back to Auto-update after you have entered the firing data? I agree that the best way to find the problem, and improve your technique, is to whang away at the "ducks" in the training mission. Whatever tactic you use, if you can consistently hit the targets in the training mission, you'll feel more confident when you try to do it in an operational setting. Fluckey recounts spending hours in the attack simulator at New London, even talking about some of his officers stopping by late one Saturday night after an evening out, with the wives in tow! (Kids, don't try this at home!)

08-02-14, 10:53 PM	#8
desirableroasted Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: In the mountains, now. On the edge of the sea before. Posts: 933 Downloads: 47 Uploads: 0	The others have provided excellent advice. When you get your problem sorted, you should investigate and upgrade to one of the supermods (GWX, NYGM) pretty quickly. Vanilla, unfortunately, teaches you a lot of bad tactical habits: the torpedoes and deck gun shells are over-powered, the merchants are flimsier, the escorts are manned by pre-schoolers, the British have not discovered mines, etc, etc. If you wait until you are really good at Vanilla, you may find yourself having to unlearn as much as you learn when you go to a supermod. Good hunting! It's a great game. __________________ "Well, now, that's true... the IXC is a bit of a chick magnet..but you really can't beat the VIIB for off-road fun."

08-01-14, 12:07 PM	#2
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Kudos to 100% realism. I would recommend playing with map contacts on until you get the hang of things. The map contacts on allows you to understand precisely the relationship of the target to your boat, and it allows you to know precisely the target speed, by using the 3 minute 15 second measurement on the map. With this information you can input virtually exact information into the TDC and have confidence that your data is good. If you are shooting with a 000 gyro angle, then the torpedo will fly straight out from your sub. Thus if the target is moving right-to-left, you will have to move the periscope to the right of 0 bearing to lead the target. Likewise if it is moving left-to-right, you will have to point the scope to the left of 0 bearing to lead the target. My first thought is that you are setting the AoB incorrectly on the TDC. This is easy to do - I sometimes screw it up on attacks even now and have wasted more than one torpedo that way. The AoB is the angle from the bow of the target to you. If you are doing a 90 degree shot, then you will point to 90 starboard if your boat is to the right of the target's heading, and you will point it to 90 port if your boat is to the left of the target's heading. If you set this backwards, your torpedo will fire in the wrong direction with "reverse lead". If you know the target speed and you approach at 90 degrees, a hit is virtually assured against merchant ships or warships when using electric torpedoes. Warships can see and will actively try to dodge steam torpedoes. Steve

08-01-14, 12:57 PM	#3
Theodulus Watch Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 23 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	When I first started playing the game, I was forgetting to hit the final check box on the notepad to send the data to the TDC. So once you find range, AOB, and speed, hit the check box at the bottom and you should see the gyro-angle change to something more appropriate.

08-03-14, 12:13 PM	#9
Turbulent Nub Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 4 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thanks all! Unbelievably, I think that the problem was the 'ticking the final box' solution proposed by Theodulus. I am kicking myself I have only managed to find a spare hour this weekend to even play the game, and the only ship I found was despatched by deck gun to save torpedos so still not had chance to try out the advice offered here. I'm sure I will meet with more success in future! Regarding the mods, which comes recommended in terms of realism? I have looked into the Grey Wolves mod and that looks quite good, though I am worried as whenever I have tried installing mods for previous games it has gone horribly wrong for me, but with the help of you guys I am sure I will meet with more success this time!

08-05-14, 09:49 AM	#15
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	If the issue still persists. Somehow the AOB setting or the Target speed setting is not transfered to the TDC. If AOB is still 0 it thinks the torpedo is comming straight for you, and it does not need to lead the target. Similarly, if target speed is set to 0 it thinks the target is stationary, and thus does not need to lead aswel. Using the notepad method you certainly need to press that "Send to TDC" button whenever you have measured good data. You can check what you have entered on the F6 TDC screen. By flipping the Auto update/Manual TDC switch you can even correct any wrong settings. Don't forget to set the switch back though. Make sure you do a range measurement just before you fire. If it is old it might not correctly account for a high gyroangle parallax. The TDC does not update the range when you drag the periscope around. Opening the tubes does not have to be done right before firing. You can do that much sooner. But it must be done before you want to fire the torpedo, or else the torpedo will be delayed to the party.