Walter Lacqueur on Europe's decline

Skybird · 07-27-13, 05:36 AM

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-912837.html

Quote:

SPIEGEL: Mr. Laqueur, you experienced Europe and the Europeans in the best and the worst of times. Historical hot spots and the stations of your personal biography were closely and sometimes dramatically intertwined. Which conclusions have you reached today, at the advanced age of 92?

Laqueur: I became a historian of the postwar era in Europe, but the Europe I knew no longer exists. My book "Out of the Ruins of Europe," published in 1970, ended with an optimistic assessment of the future. Later, in 2008, "The Last Days of Europe: Epitaph for an Old Continent" was published. I returned to the subject in my latest book, "After the Fall: The End of the European Dream and the Decline of a Continent." The sequence of titles probably says it all.

Oberon · 07-27-13, 05:48 AM

I wonder if there is any nation on this Earth at the moment with a free press that does not have some entity in it postulating that the nation is in decline.

Skybird · 07-27-13, 05:55 AM

What goes up, must come down, and whatever empire there ever has been, has finally fallen. Before the present it were decades of boasting that everything is in climb, is raising, is getting better, is growing forever.

Nothing is forever. The day not of the Triffids but the Bills gets closer. Our current society has never been designed to be lasting and to be sustainable. It always maximised the short-termed spike and short-living sensation at the cost of the long-lasting perspective. It always spent more than it could afford, and built no reserves for bad times that inevitably sooner or later come to any society as well. It always wanted tot to maintain, but to grow, endlessly, and it designed itself to even depend on growing endlessly - which is a lethal verdict, of course.

Everything since 1945 has just been seen as an endless party with all drinks for free.

Oberon · 07-27-13, 06:12 AM

It's a cycle, of course the dominance of the west is going to fall, nothing lasts forever, but it doesn't necessarily equate to the sort of blood, death and destruction that some people seem to think it will. Present article excluded, and I note at the end of the article that at the end of the 19th century many nations feared their decline, France for example, after her defeats in the 1870s, rose up again in strength by the 1890s.
Yes, we are in decline, no it's not terminal nor will it last forever. Will we delude ourselves and spend freely in the next boom? Probably, yes, since we rarely seem to learn, but that is the nature of the beast.

em2nought · 07-27-13, 08:48 AM

The wealth squandered by western gov'ts in the name of the people truly boggles the mind. You'd think that only drunken sailors ran for office.

Armistead · 07-27-13, 10:02 AM

The US won't be far behind, seems China and India will be the powers of the future.

07-27-13, 05:55 AM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,637 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	What goes up, must come down, and whatever empire there ever has been, has finally fallen. Before the present it were decades of boasting that everything is in climb, is raising, is getting better, is growing forever. Nothing is forever. The day not of the Triffids but the Bills gets closer. Our current society has never been designed to be lasting and to be sustainable. It always maximised the short-termed spike and short-living sensation at the cost of the long-lasting perspective. It always spent more than it could afford, and built no reserves for bad times that inevitably sooner or later come to any society as well. It always wanted tot to maintain, but to grow, endlessly, and it designed itself to even depend on growing endlessly - which is a lethal verdict, of course. Everything since 1945 has just been seen as an endless party with all drinks for free. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-27-13, 08:48 AM	#5
em2nought Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,485 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The wealth squandered by western gov'ts in the name of the people truly boggles the mind. You'd think that only drunken sailors ran for office. __________________ em2nought is ecstatic garbage!

07-27-13, 10:02 AM	#6
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	The US won't be far behind, seems China and India will be the powers of the future. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

07-27-13, 05:48 AM	#2
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	I wonder if there is any nation on this Earth at the moment with a free press that does not have some entity in it postulating that the nation is in decline.

07-27-13, 06:12 AM	#4
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	It's a cycle, of course the dominance of the west is going to fall, nothing lasts forever, but it doesn't necessarily equate to the sort of blood, death and destruction that some people seem to think it will. Present article excluded, and I note at the end of the article that at the end of the 19th century many nations feared their decline, France for example, after her defeats in the 1870s, rose up again in strength by the 1890s. Yes, we are in decline, no it's not terminal nor will it last forever. Will we delude ourselves and spend freely in the next boom? Probably, yes, since we rarely seem to learn, but that is the nature of the beast.