US warns of Snowden consequences

[Jimbuna]

I hope the obvious frustration felt does not result in the US painting themselves into a corner.

US Secretary of State John Kerry has said it would be "disappointing" if Russia and China had helped US fugitive Edward Snowden evade US attempts to extradite him from Hong Kong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23031801

[Betonov]

It would be disappointing if they don't help him

[Jimbuna]

I've an open mind atm but it would be interesting to see some viewpoints on the matter.

[Wolferz]

Exposing the treachery and ineptitude of a puppet government and its' agencies should not carry a penalty of any kind. The Fed has been painting bollocks with a broad brush for far too long. The days of their fear and war mongering for profit are numbered, whether the shadow government likes it or not.

[Mr Quatro]

The NSA should post ads for turn coat spys on all of the defense department networks and then let the password slip for that page only.

Show a nice house in Monatana (isn't that where the sailor on Red October wanted to go?) with a swimning pool surrounded
by binki clad women with the title, "this could be all yours"

"Will trade for insider information"

"Please call if you need help getting to America"

[Catfish]

Obviously in an advanced democracy, the people cannot be trusted anymore.
(b.t.w. the GCHQ is even worse than the NSA, just saying. The surveillance and eavesdropping in England must be on the top of the world - i only remember those ten thousands of surveillance cameras in London alone - funnily enough lots of those around George Orwell's home)

I think they do not so much betray 'secrets' to foreign countries, but have the intention to make clear what governments do, to their own citizens.
They did not do it for money or fame, instead they knew they would be hunted and criminalized, before they would be probably killed.
(You know you have to destroy a man publicly and politically, before you can kill him)

In my opinion they all deserve a nobel prize, and much much more than Obama.



But the main question is what do the people do now, after they have seen their own democratic (lmao) governments violate public and international law ?

My guess is: Nothing. Disgust is present, but indignation about those ploys is sooo old school. Better publish my personal last night's adventure in FaceBook, via iPhone. And buy a new car.

[Oberon]

Consequences?!

What consequences, the US can't do a thing, the limits of their power and the power of the Western nations has been white-lined by Assange, and is now fairly common knowledge. Russia and China (and therefore by logical extension Hong Kong) have no love lost for the US, nor does Ecuador, Cuba and Venezuela. Ecuador will (eventually) take him in, and they will parade him in public positions, he will eventually release the rest of his information, thus keeping himself in the limelight and thus unkillable without immediate suspicion falling on the US, and then he will fade away, of little more use or consequence to either the US or its enemies. Eventually when he is in his sixties he may come back to the US out of nostalgia and will be arrested and stand trial, and then he will end his days in prison.

[STEED]

Hes done a Lord Lucan, that is to say if the news is right.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

Exposing the treachery and ineptitude of a puppet government and its' agencies should not carry a penalty of any kind. The Fed has been painting bollocks with a broad brush for far too long. The days of their fear and war mongering for profit are numbered, whether the shadow government likes it or not.

I read this and I hope that you jest my friend.Any unfair deed that our government does pails in comparison to the oppressive states that exist in both China and the CIS(Russia).

If you had posted what you posted above in either China or Russia you would not be sitting comfortably in your home right now.You would be in jail and after conviction (100% certain to occur) you would be serving anywhere from a year to 10 years in prison.

The US federal government may not always be picture perfect but it is mild in comparison to the alternatives.

Snowden is nothing but a blowhard and he does not know very much I can assure you of that.I know people that where contractors for the CIA and NSA they only have very limited information only about the specific project they work on and they never know every detail only enough to do what ever they do.My uncle worked for the NSA while he was in the USAF back in the 70's and the same story he only knew enough to perform his duty which in his case was recording certain Soviet communication networks.

All I can say is if you knew a person who worked for the CIA or NSA you would not be so interested in Snowden.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

If you had posted what you posted above in either China or Russia you would not be sitting comfortably in your home right now.You would be in jail and after conviction (100% certain to occur) you would be serving anywhere from a year to 10 years in prison.

The US federal government may not always be picture perfect but it is mild in comparison to the alternatives.

Well said ... it's a battle for what we think. Most of us on the outside looking in can't possibly understand what is going on.

If the tide should turn like in so many news stories lately with the real truth coming out later than sooner then many will be caught with egg on their face.

No love has been lost with this trump card Russia now pocesses.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I read this and I hope that you jest my friend.Any unfair deed that our government does pails in comparison to the oppressive states that exist in both China and the CIS(Russia)..

That's nice. Does that somehow excuse our government from any wrongdoing? Do you say our own people spying on us is alright because "they're worse"?

Did Snowden reveal secrets that could get our own people killed? If so, then he deserves prosecution. Or is he the one who exposed all the rescent wiretapping activities? If his "crime" was to reveal illegal activities perpetrated by our own govermnent, then who is the real criminal?

[Mittelwaechter]

What would have happened, if a member of the Chinese secret service had unfold unbelievable international cyber surveillance details of the Chinese government and would now try to hide from China police?
I guess he would already sit in a CIA jet heading to the United Stasi of America, to meet senators and members of the congress, shaking hands for Faux News, calling him a hero of the free world, who fights for democracy and freedom etc.
And of course the land of the free would deny any help to bring him back to China, were he would have to face repression, unfair treatment, solitary confinement and other forms of torture. Well, in the sight of Guantanamo and Mr. Manning I think Hong Kong, China and the Russians have a similar statement to deliver.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I hope the obvious frustration felt does not result in the US painting themselves into a corner.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23031801

Personally, I find that obvious frustration highly amusing. Obama want's Snowden..... badly. You pile this NSA/Prism scandal on top of the IRS and everything else that's going on, and it's makes Obama look even worse then he did previously. So of course Obama want's snowden's head on a pike (metaphorically speaking). On top of that, he's exposed a blatant power/control grab by our government, and that makes the political elite's unhappy panda's when us Plebians know what their up to. That constitution and bill of rights is a pesky thing for them.

Originally Posted by Oberon

Consequences?!

What consequences, the US can't do a thing, the limits of their power and the power of the Western nations has been white-lined by Assange, and is now fairly common knowledge. Russia and China (and therefore by logical extension Hong Kong) have no love lost for the US, nor does Ecuador, Cuba and Venezuela. Ecuador will (eventually) take him in, and they will parade him in public positions, he will eventually release the rest of his information, thus keeping himself in the limelight and thus unkillable without immediate suspicion falling on the US, and then he will fade away, of little more use or consequence to either the US or its enemies. Eventually when he is in his sixties he may come back to the US out of nostalgia and will be arrested and stand trial, and then he will end his days in prison.

I would agree with an opinion that the United States does not have the global power and influence it previously enjoyed, regardless if our politicians realize it or not. I think many nations may see the US as looking inward (as well we should), and less outward, and their actions or inactions on the global stage when dealing with the US may reflect that.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

That's nice. Does that somehow excuse our government from any wrongdoing? Do you say our own people spying on us is alright because "they're worse"?

Did Snowden reveal secrets that could get our own people killed? If so, then he deserves prosecution. Or is he the one who exposed all the rescent wiretapping activities? If his "crime" was to reveal illegal activities perpetrated by our own govermnent, then who is the real criminal?

Personally, I draw a distinction between Snowden and Mannings.

Snowden:
Exposed a broad over reach of governmental power and in my opinion violations of our civil liberties. In specific the fourth amendment, and he did so without revealing too much in the way of speciifcs. Names, plans, internal memos' ,etc. He just gave a summary or general overview of what our government is doing to us behind our backs. In my opinion, not a traitor, because his motives seem to be keeping with ideals of freedom and liberty, which is what our country is founded upon. Now, I wouldn't call him a hero, but I would say he has the courage to follow his convictions.

But again I don't think he's a traitor because all he did was confirm that yes, big brother IS watching, something Terrorists already knew. Now our government want's his ass because he exposed them for what their doing, and their going to break out "the tools" to sweep him and everything he said under the rug because it is a threat to their power.

Mannings:
Gave away specifics. Names, time tables, memo's, plans, etc etc, documentation that has tactical value to insurgents, terrorists and the like. That's a traitor, to his brothers in arms, and his country.

Originally Posted by August

IMO legality is immaterial. Mass surveillance of the American people without their knowledge let alone permission is just plain wrong.

Wrong in several ways.

[Jimbuna]

It's beginning to look like the Russians are resorting to the use of 'technicalities' to deny any involvement or knowledge of this gentleman's whereabouts.

Russia says it has had no involvement in the travel plans of fugitive US intelligence leaker Edward Snowden.
His whereabouts are unclear after he flew from Hong Kong to Moscow on Sunday. His passport has been revoked.
Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov insisted Mr Snowden had not crossed the border and rejected what he termed US attempts to blame Russia for his disappearance.

Correspondents say Mr Lavrov's comments suggest that Mr Snowden remained air-side after landing at Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport, and so has technically never entered Russian territory.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23045790

[Wolferz]

From Doctor Benjamin Carson. Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns-Hopkins.

Granted, this video has nothing to do with the topic at hand but, it does enumerate the reason/s for this subject even seeing the light of day.