Norwegian Ships (Neutral?)

[RustySubmarine]

I came across a Norwegian ship in the North Sea, which showed up on the chart in (Green) as a neutral. Apparently, most of the Norwegian Ships were allocated to British Shipping Companies and were used in British Convoys across the Atlantic. Therefore, attacking or sinking a ship flying the Norwegian flag is quite in order, which would probably be carrying supplies for the British war effort.

Reading the book Attack & Sink The Battle for Convoy SC42 by Bernard Edwards (Brilliant read by the way) relates to this fact that Norwegian ships in this convoy were operated by various British companies, after the invasion of Norway. So as far as the U boats were concerned, although showing green on the chart in SH3 as neutral, they were in fact under British control so were quite in order to attack.

[Missing Name]

The damned Norwegian shipping. I modified basic.cfg so that NEUTRAL=1. In other words, sinking a neutral grants credit. I only use this for convoys - if it's in an enemy collection, fair game. Then we run into the real life fuzziness of "neutral" US escorts guarding an enemy ship. In that case, also fair game.

Don't abuse it and go raid New York harbor before 8 December 1941!

[RustySubmarine]

Originally Posted by Missing Name

The damned Norwegian shipping. I modified basic.cfg so that NEUTRAL=1. In other words, sinking a neutral grants credit. I only use this for convoys - if it's in an enemy collection, fair game. Then we run into the real life fuzziness of "neutral" US escorts guarding an enemy ship. In that case, also fair game.

Don't abuse it and go raid New York harbor before 8 December 1941!

So in other words, if a Norwegian ship is travelling in the protection of a convoy, then it is quite in order to sink it, but if travelling alone, it is classed as a neutral and should not be attacked?

Even if it may or may not be carrying British supplies, I think attacking it would not be breaking any rules as far as BdU would be concerned, as it may more than likely be under British control, but with a Norwegian crew.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by RustySubmarine

So in other words, if a Norwegian ship is travelling in the protection of a convoy, then it is quite in order to sink it, but if travelling alone, it is classed as a neutral and should not be attacked?

Not in the stock game. It's not that sophisticated. It only reads what the file says. If you modify it the way Missing Name did then all Neutral ships will give full credit, period.

I'm a bit more masochistic. I modified my 'Neutral' listing to give zero credit. I'm neither penalized nor rewarded. Based on real-life court-martials I also modified my 'Friendly' ships to read -1 rather than -10. Every sinking of a friendly ship resulted in the u-boat kaleun being found not guilty.

[CaptBones]

Thanks Steve; that's the best method that I've heard of to-date.

The problem is a "game" problem and you've got a great "game" solution there. I say that because in real life the solution during the earliest months of the war was to stop (or at least attempt to stop) any neutral vessels and carry out inspection as required by the Prize Regulations. A quick review of sinkings on "uboat.net" reveals many instances of "neutral" shipping being sunk after U-Boats followed the procedures required by Prize Regulations.

When the niceties of Victorian behavior were dispensed with later on, any vessel sailing in convoy or otherwise escorted, or failing to show running lights at night and/or steering an evasive ("zig-zag") course, even if flying neutral flag or displaying neutral ID, was a valid target that could be attacked without warning.

As you noted, all that is, or at least was, apparently too much to be coded into SHIII (or even GWX) and the original solution to ID vessels was simply to strictly follow the status of each nation regarding its involvement in the conflict, by "official" date of engagement (and which side it was on, of course). It's not just an annoyance regarding Norwegian ships either, I've been equally challenged to decide what to do about Greek shipping encountered in the first year of the war and Dutch ships seen in the first few months as well.

I think I'll give your "fix" a try. I wonder if it would be a good method for SHIV ATO/OM also; I get tired of letting all those "neutral" ships go by, knowing that the game doesn't care if they're "neutral" or not and will give me full credit for sinking them if I decide to "cheat" a litlle...

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by CaptBones

When the niceties of Victorian behavior were dispensed with later on, any vessel sailing in convoy or otherwise escorted, or failing to show running lights at night and/or steering an evasive ("zig-zag") course, even if flying neutral flag or displaying neutral ID, was a valid target that could be attacked without warning.

It was even worse in the First World War. U-boats would always stop and inspect ships, so the British developed the first Q-Ships. They not only had hidden guns, they had extra crew trained to abandon ship, so the u-boat would be tempted to pull right alongside. It was because of that the Germans started torpedoing ships while submerged, and when they did the Brits accused them of cheating.

As you noted, all that is, or at least was, apparently too much to be coded into SHIII (or even GWX).

It is buried in the basic code. It could be changed, but to do so would be illegal, so no, it can't be done.

I wonder if it would be a good method for SHIV ATO/OM also;

They are exactly the same in that regard, and so is SH5.

I get tired of letting all those "neutral" ships go by, knowing that the game doesn't care if they're "neutral" or not and will give me full credit for sinking them if I decide to "cheat" a litlle...

I never attack neutrals, even with the changes, unless they are in a convoy. Even then I try to avoid it if I can.