Lance "Superman" Armstrong crashed and grounded for life

Skybird · 10-22-12, 08:47 AM

First he lost the red cape, then the rest of his blue dress. Naked, smile gone, no shiny teeth anymore: poor poor ex-superman.

Sponsors jumping off, all sports titles gone, witness reports of intimidation, mobbing and character assassination to blackmail people to keep the dirty secrets, reputation as cheater established probably - and hopefully - for life.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20008520

How was he heroized when Jan Ullrich fell: how innocent he was declared, how shiny and glorious.

How "surprising" now to learn that in fact he is not one inch better.

I maybe could forgive the doping (I'm for legalizing it anyway, for pure pragmatic reasons), and the lying. But not the violence in form of intimidating, mobbing and character assassination of former employees. Such acts reveal more about character than just cheats in sports.

Onkel Neal · 10-22-12, 09:08 AM

I agree, provided that the accusations are true (have they been proved in a court of law yet? Or just the court of public opinion?) Cheating in a sport is the exact opposite thing from the nature of the sport, and constant lying and misleading is abominable. I cannot see how anyone can justify their own lying and faking for years like this, with so much glory and money at stake. Terrible.

Herr-Berbunch · 10-22-12, 09:28 AM

The sport is wrecked, knowing you can cheat (allegedly, your Honour) for so many years/titles and almost get away with it.

The drug teams shouldn't have been quite so complicit/complacent - if he's not where he says he will be then action should be taken, if he fails a sample then don't just accept his immediate excuse, and above all - don't let 'em know you're coming.

stoppro · 10-22-12, 09:37 AM

He has not failed any drug test.What if your workplace was like this,coworkers crap all over you so even if you pass your drug test you are out.He may be guilty but the system is flawed.

Jimbuna · 10-22-12, 10:09 AM

Guilty or not...the system is as equally so.

I'm wondering if the sport will ever fully recover.

August · 10-22-12, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Guilty or not...the system is as equally so.

I'm wondering if the sport will ever fully recover.

Let's hope it just dies a natural death.

Herr-Berbunch · 10-22-12, 10:10 AM

Quote:

"If you were careful and paid attention, you could dope and be 99% certain that you would not get caught."

On one occasion Hamilton heard a knock on the door when he was glowing, and simply hid inside the house in silence until the tester gave up and went away.

They never came during the night, making late evening the best time for doping. One elderly tester even called in advance to let the cyclists know when he was coming.

"The most conventional way that the US Postal riders beat what little out-of-competition testing there was, was simply to use their wits to avoid the testers," says the Usada report published on Wednesday.
It adds that Armstrong sometimes stayed at an out-of-the-way hotel where he was "virtually certain not to be tested".

Quote:

Armstrong contests that he took 500 drug tests worldwide and never failed one. This is disputed. Hamilton says he failed tests, but managed to explain it away, or hush it up.

Quote:

The Usada report takes the same line. It says Armstrong was subjected to "considerably fewer" tests than he and his lawyers claim, and contends that a medical prescription Armstrong produced to explain a failed blood test in 1999 was bogus.

Source- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19912623

mookiemookie · 10-22-12, 10:21 AM

He may be guilty, he may be innocent. But when the USADA’s entire case against him is based around hearsay from guys trying to save their own skin and not actual dirty drug tests, I don't know what to believe.

Skybird · 10-22-12, 05:48 PM

"Indizienprozess": trial based on cirumstantial evidence. And the cirmcumstantial evidence against Lance Armstrong seems to have accumulated to overwhelming dimensions. Added to that confessions by former sports collegues and teammates, and witness confessions by staff members and aides.

Solid enough to take action.

It is not surprising an outcome anyway.

Ironically, an insurance company which got sued by Armstrong years ago for some contract salaries, now sues him to get the money back. Sponsors have jumped. He could go financially bancrupt, charges by former contract partners who seek compensation from him are still possible.

He then will write a book. The bookmarket is lacking so much class and is so patient these days that every piece of cat's dirt could be marketed to become a bestseller, no matter the lack of talent in the author.

Platapus · 10-22-12, 06:43 PM

I read the 202 page report on the USADA website. While it is not a very well written document, it does appear that there is a lot of very suspicious behaviour dating back to 1998.

The USADA report is more a condemnation of the entire USPS team, which includes Lance. I think some people are missing that point.

Jimbuna · 10-23-12, 07:24 AM

It will be interesting to see if he is sued for any of the money he has amassed over the years but a book is probably a cert as well as a film.

Sammi79 · 10-23-12, 08:11 AM

Hmmm.

Well since apparently everyone was at it, how could it have possibly thrown the results? The best man still won, no? For most of his colleagues and admirers who understand this he will still be forever a legend, and that they can never take away.

Performance drugs can not magically enable you to be competitive in a mega endurance sport like the TDF if you are not practically super human and competitive already. Drugs laws in sport need to be looked at I think. Mind you, drugs laws in general need to be seriously looked at, I think.

All the rules do is attempt to 'level the playing field' anyway, which as we know is impossible. Physically, people are not exactly equal. Should we also handicap those who are faster, stronger ec. because it's not fair? consider that altitude training is also regarded as being unfair, what about those who live at altitude? they should not compete either? So this whole tear down of his character and achievements is simply ridiculous, in my honest opinion. He is and always will be one of the greatest, and most stunning examples of human endurance and physical prowess there has ever been. Drugs or no.

Sailor Steve · 10-23-12, 01:15 PM

Great summation, Sammi. I agree with your points, but was unable to articulate them properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammi79

He is and always will be one of the greatest, and most stunning examples of human endurance and physical prowess there has ever been. Drugs or no.

I'm sure Sheryl Crow thought so.

10-22-12, 08:47 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,654 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Lance "Superman" Armstrong crashed and grounded for life First he lost the red cape, then the rest of his blue dress. Naked, smile gone, no shiny teeth anymore: poor poor ex-superman. Sponsors jumping off, all sports titles gone, witness reports of intimidation, mobbing and character assassination to blackmail people to keep the dirty secrets, reputation as cheater established probably - and hopefully - for life. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20008520 How was he heroized when Jan Ullrich fell: how innocent he was declared, how shiny and glorious. How "surprising" now to learn that in fact he is not one inch better. I maybe could forgive the doping (I'm for legalizing it anyway, for pure pragmatic reasons), and the lying. But not the violence in form of intimidating, mobbing and character assassination of former employees. Such acts reveal more about character than just cheats in sports. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-22-12, 09:08 AM	#2
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	I agree, provided that the accusations are true (have they been proved in a court of law yet? Or just the court of public opinion?) Cheating in a sport is the exact opposite thing from the nature of the sport, and constant lying and misleading is abominable. I cannot see how anyone can justify their own lying and faking for years like this, with so much glory and money at stake. Terrible. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

10-22-12, 09:28 AM	#3
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	The sport is wrecked, knowing you can cheat (allegedly, your Honour) for so many years/titles and almost get away with it. The drug teams shouldn't have been quite so complicit/complacent - if he's not where he says he will be then action should be taken, if he fails a sample then don't just accept his immediate excuse, and above all - don't let 'em know you're coming. __________________

10-22-12, 09:37 AM	#4
stoppro Sonar Guy Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: vero beach fl Posts: 380 Downloads: 495 Uploads: 0	He has not failed any drug test.What if your workplace was like this,coworkers crap all over you so even if you pass your drug test you are out.He may be guilty but the system is flawed. __________________ win 10 64-msi-32gig cosair ddr4-ryzen9-5600evga gtx3060-corsair850watt-2-ssd 500 gig drives 1m2 1tig

10-22-12, 10:09 AM	#5
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,617 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Guilty or not...the system is as equally so. I'm wondering if the sport will ever fully recover. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

10-22-12, 10:21 AM	#8
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	He may be guilty, he may be innocent. But when the USADA’s entire case against him is based around hearsay from guys trying to save their own skin and not actual dirty drug tests, I don't know what to believe. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

10-22-12, 05:48 PM	#9
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,654 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	"Indizienprozess": trial based on cirumstantial evidence. And the cirmcumstantial evidence against Lance Armstrong seems to have accumulated to overwhelming dimensions. Added to that confessions by former sports collegues and teammates, and witness confessions by staff members and aides. Solid enough to take action. It is not surprising an outcome anyway. Ironically, an insurance company which got sued by Armstrong years ago for some contract salaries, now sues him to get the money back. Sponsors have jumped. He could go financially bancrupt, charges by former contract partners who seek compensation from him are still possible. He then will write a book. The bookmarket is lacking so much class and is so patient these days that every piece of cat's dirt could be marketed to become a bestseller, no matter the lack of talent in the author. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-22-12, 06:43 PM	#10
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,380 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I read the 202 page report on the USADA website. While it is not a very well written document, it does appear that there is a lot of very suspicious behaviour dating back to 1998. The USADA report is more a condemnation of the entire USPS team, which includes Lance. I think some people are missing that point. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

10-23-12, 07:24 AM	#11
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,617 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	It will be interesting to see if he is sued for any of the money he has amassed over the years but a book is probably a cert as well as a film. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

10-23-12, 08:11 AM	#12
Sammi79 XO Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Penzance Posts: 428 Downloads: 272 Uploads: 0	Hmmm. Well since apparently everyone was at it, how could it have possibly thrown the results? The best man still won, no? For most of his colleagues and admirers who understand this he will still be forever a legend, and that they can never take away. Performance drugs can not magically enable you to be competitive in a mega endurance sport like the TDF if you are not practically super human and competitive already. Drugs laws in sport need to be looked at I think. Mind you, drugs laws in general need to be seriously looked at, I think. All the rules do is attempt to 'level the playing field' anyway, which as we know is impossible. Physically, people are not exactly equal. Should we also handicap those who are faster, stronger ec. because it's not fair? consider that altitude training is also regarded as being unfair, what about those who live at altitude? they should not compete either? So this whole tear down of his character and achievements is simply ridiculous, in my honest opinion. He is and always will be one of the greatest, and most stunning examples of human endurance and physical prowess there has ever been. Drugs or no. __________________ Gadewais fy beic nghadwyno i'r rhai a rheiliau, pan wnes i ddychwelyd, yno mae'n roedd... Wedi mynd.