A complaint about this game

[Daniel Prates]

So far, I am still one of the many users "awarded" with a bug in which the game's units simply freeze (but not the game itself). The developers seems to have no clue as to why this happens. All guys who have reported this flaw have acceptable hardware platforms.

Many people complain about that in paradox's specific forum, but our voices are being muffled by an atmosphere of sheer praise and compliments. A too-good-to-be-true cheer, by the way, as the game is plagued with many shortcomings, both in performance (no savegame button in single missons, for instance!) and in realism (aircraft being able to launch withins seconds even if you order their ordnance changed, for instance). I'm not saying that these praises are lies; maybe people just dont know better. Anyway, it is obvious that this "hurray!" climate is bringing down the effort from a part of the comunity (victims of this game's too early, untested release) to point out that main flaws are a fact and no solution is within sight - worse than that, the happiness of a majority of users (could be merely 50% + 1, i dont really know) appears to be posing the complaining ones as: a) an irrelevant group, considering that "so many people" are happy with the game; b) basicly, moaners that have nothing better to do than to disagree with the pre-concept that the devs are the best guys in the world, and thanks god for them.

Should you people be interested, I just posted this commentary on the game's specific forum in paradox forums:

"I would like, at this point, to bring attention to some issues that are not being properly discussed. They relate to this specific bug (of which I am STILL a victim, by the way), but to some other overall issues.

Though the developers (of which I assume JanH is a main representant) are obviously trying (apparently) to solve this main issue, I too think that the problem is being downplayed somewhat, in an indirect manner.

People are always saying that paradox has a huge online comunity, that many developers are there improving their games etc... that is all fine, of course, but it all is said in such a manner as if they (devs and comunity) were doing us FAVOURS of which we were supposed to be imensely grateful.

That is not how it works. We are CUSTUMERS. I bougth a game (this and many others, chech how much games I have activated) because of paradox's standards (which used to be higher). When I buy a game I expect it to work, to have support, to have answers. But all i've been seeing is one of two things: a) a developer saying "we're on it" every now and then, and b) for every time a dev says something, there are 100 other users saying things like "get off the guys back. My game works fine, so its your problem, be patient". As if I were here to get the opinion of other users! Some guy actually had the nerve to come to me and say "its obviously a problem at your end, as I had no such complaint".

Why do I see so many people here in a "touchy" stance? "Oh my, dont complain, the devs are great guys and are doing their best... dont be mean to them... what would happen if they decided to stop being helpful " etc etc... what the heck is going on? We are now coming to understand that we bougth an un-ready game, and we are the bad guys for coming here and complain about it? I paid for this game, damn it, and I want it working! And on the side, I would also like for satisfied customers (or "lucky customers" they should be called, as they are just that, lucky for having the game to work) to stop meddling with anything but constructive opinions. For every constructive opinion I read from an user, I read 10 or so post praising the game and making it seem that the complaining custumers are something like an comunity pariah.

Paradox really should come out and say "here is your money back. We'll correct the game then put it out again - so next time you buy a game from us, you will know we mean business".

[Daniel Prates]

And I will add saying that, as for now, "fleet command" is still a vastly surpassing game in all aspects. NWAC has potential, but it is still far from it. Maybe we will see, in the future, a more mature game, be it an oficial development, be it a comunity-improved game. But the truth of the matter is that if a guy cant simply get a game to work, or even complain about it without having the comunity to stone him... that is rough.

Paradox used to be better. I sure hope they are reading this.

[Julhelm]

Consider that this is the only naval sim to have been released recently. You and others say Fleet Command is better, but that game came out in what, 1998? Whole different time and climate then, so the type of bitching I see on the NWAC boards, ie "This game sucks, Fleet Command is better" is not constructive at all.

And I think the naval crowd has not forgotten that bitching killed the SH series, leaving us with nothing. The game has potential and the devs are working on fixing the bugs. They're not going to get the patch out quicker just because people complain more about the same problem.

These guys deserve the praise simply for trying. After all they could've been making social games and made tons of money.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Consider that this is the only naval sim to have been released recently. You and others say Fleet Command is better, but that game came out in what, 1998? Whole different time and climate then, so the type of bitching I see on the NWAC boards, ie "This game sucks, Fleet Command is better" is not constructive at all.

And I think the naval crowd has not forgotten that bitching killed the SH series, leaving us with nothing. The game has potential and the devs are working on fixing the bugs. They're not going to get the patch out quicker just because people complain more about the same problem.

These guys deserve the praise simply for trying. After all they could've been making social games and made tons of money.

I have only tried the Demo-version so far. I also have the old FC and I say the same FC was and stil is better than this new game. Yes FC is old but it's concept is somehow better.

Give them a Chance!!?? why??? You do not send a game on the market, that crash/freeze the game or your computer. If it does happen, the devoloper should remove the game from the market and fix it.

Markus

[Daniel Prates]

Julhem, you are evading the topic alltogether. It is about the game NOT WORKING for a lot of costumers, and also about and the lack of response - no, actually, the combat that game suporters are posing, in such a manner that complaining about an obvious game flaw has become subject of HOSTILITY in paradox's forum.

That is what my bitch and moan is all about. It is not about comparing FC to NWAC.




PS: though there is no fair compairson between the two.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

That is what my bitch and moan is all about. It is not about comparing FC to NWAC.




PS: though there is no fair compairson between the two.

Oh, you must have played a different "Fleet Command" than me. When it was first released, FC was referred to as "Harpoon lite", pretty but not very realistic.

Please lets not turn this into another SH3 vs SH5 slugfest.

I understand your frustation, but tracking down hardware problems on a new game is often the most frustating. I have played the game over 10 hours now and have had zero freezes or CTDs.

[Julhelm]

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Julhem, you are evading the topic alltogether. It is about the game NOT WORKING for a lot of costumers, and also about and the lack of response

Bull****. The devs are working on a patch. Ergo they are trying to fix the issue that prevents some of their customers from playing the game. What more response can you ask for? Like I said, constantly creating new topics and bitching about the same bug in every thread the way sim fans tend to do accomplishes nothing but create the reputation that the game itself is a lemon , thus negatively affecting sales and further diminishing the chance of us getting any new naval games in the foreseeable future. As for me I'd rather not be stuck with playing 10+ year old games forever. If 300+ strong AAA dev teams cannot release bugfree games, what makes you think a small indie dev can deliver a flawless product as their first game?

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Give them a Chance!!?? why??? You do not send a game on the market, that crash/freeze the game or your computer. If it does happen, the devoloper should remove the game from the market and fix it.

By that logic, Fleet Command shouldn't be here either.


* the relevant thread over at Paradox btw, seeing as how it isn't linked to here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...freeze-problem

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I have only tried the Demo-version so far. I also have the old FC and I say the same FC was and stil is better than this new game. Yes FC is old but it's concept is somehow better.

Give them a Chance!!?? why??? You do not send a game on the market, that crash/freeze the game or your computer. If it does happen, the devoloper should remove the game from the market and fix it.

Markus

I too tried the demo and found it lacking. Not that the game was bad, or not fun. I just found it lacking something to keep me hooked.

Not speaking bad on it mind you. I did find it fun, just not "addictive".

[Takeda Shingen]

Let's keep this from getting personal, guys. Argue the game not the person.

The Management

[jpinard]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

I too tried the demo and found it lacking. Not that the game was bad, or not fun. I just found it lacking something to keep me hooked.

Not speaking bad on it mind you. I did find it fun, just not "addictive".

I felt that way at first too. But when I realized this was more a mix of Defcon & Fleet Command as opposed to a Fleet Command clone I started enjoying it a lot more.

[stormrider_sp]

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

So far, I am still one of the many users "awarded" with a bug in which the game's units simply freeze (but not the game itself). The developers seems to have no clue as to why this happens. All guys who have reported this flaw have acceptable hardware platforms.

Many people complain about that in paradox's specific forum, but our voices are being muffled by an atmosphere of sheer praise and compliments. A too-good-to-be-true cheer, by the way, as the game is plagued with many shortcomings, both in performance (no savegame button in single missons, for instance!) and in realism (aircraft being able to launch withins seconds even if you order their ordnance changed, for instance). I'm not saying that these praises are lies; maybe people just dont know better. Anyway, it is obvious that this "hurray!" climate is bringing down the effort from a part of the comunity (victims of this game's too early, untested release) to point out that main flaws are a fact and no solution is within sight - worse than that, the happiness of a majority of users (could be merely 50% + 1, i dont really know) appears to be posing the complaining ones as: a) an irrelevant group, considering that "so many people" are happy with the game; b) basicly, moaners that have nothing better to do than to disagree with the pre-concept that the devs are the best guys in the world, and thanks god for them.

Should you people be interested, I just posted this commentary on the game's specific forum in paradox forums:

"I would like, at this point, to bring attention to some issues that are not being properly discussed. They relate to this specific bug (of which I am STILL a victim, by the way), but to some other overall issues.

Though the developers (of which I assume JanH is a main representant) are obviously trying (apparently) to solve this main issue, I too think that the problem is being downplayed somewhat, in an indirect manner.

People are always saying that paradox has a huge online comunity, that many developers are there improving their games etc... that is all fine, of course, but it all is said in such a manner as if they (devs and comunity) were doing us FAVOURS of which we were supposed to be imensely grateful.

That is not how it works. We are CUSTUMERS. I bougth a game (this and many others, chech how much games I have activated) because of paradox's standards (which used to be higher). When I buy a game I expect it to work, to have support, to have answers. But all i've been seeing is one of two things: a) a developer saying "we're on it" every now and then, and b) for every time a dev says something, there are 100 other users saying things like "get off the guys back. My game works fine, so its your problem, be patient". As if I were here to get the opinion of other users! Some guy actually had the nerve to come to me and say "its obviously a problem at your end, as I had no such complaint".

Why do I see so many people here in a "touchy" stance? "Oh my, dont complain, the devs are great guys and are doing their best... dont be mean to them... what would happen if they decided to stop being helpful " etc etc... what the heck is going on? We are now coming to understand that we bougth an un-ready game, and we are the bad guys for coming here and complain about it? I paid for this game, damn it, and I want it working! And on the side, I would also like for satisfied customers (or "lucky customers" they should be called, as they are just that, lucky for having the game to work) to stop meddling with anything but constructive opinions. For every constructive opinion I read from an user, I read 10 or so post praising the game and making it seem that the complaining custumers are something like an comunity pariah.

Paradox really should come out and say "here is your money back. We'll correct the game then put it out again - so next time you buy a game from us, you will know we mean business".

And I tought I was the only one. For me the game is currently unplayable. When it starts to freeze, its just a matter of minutes til it unfreezes with that pathetic "defeated" screen. The game was obviously released un-tested. Not a good strategy when we naval warfare simmers have been waiting patiently for a new game for about a decade now.

I gave up playing and gave up complaining and reporting its bugs when people accused me of complaining on behalf of another game currently in development, which I am an active member of its community, as if my complains were part of a marketing plot. Pathetic!

[Julhelm]

Well you could have downloaded the demo first, but don't let that get in the way of your massive entitlement complex:

When we naval warfare simmers have been waiting patiently

Right.

[stormrider_sp]

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Well you could have downloaded the demo first, but don't let that get in the way of your massive entitlement complex:



Right.

I did download the demo, and I really enjoyed it, and even if I had not enjoyed it, I would have bought the game anyways, like all of the other naval games I bought just to support our loved genre.

Naval simmers like us, who love this genre, usually spend time "reading" and "studying" the subject, like current flight simulators, sometimes called "study sims", we usually do our homeworks, so soon after I started playing the campaing, its bugs, flaws and inconsistences started to emerge. In my opinion if not all, at least most of them current bugs and flaws would had been solved if the game hadnt been rushed out to release in first place. Take your time, do it right to do it once.
Who doesnt know the impact and value of first impressions?

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by stormrider_sp

Who doesnt know the impact and value of first impressions?

... Then why this need to slam the thing completely? That "quitting in a huff" thread over at Paradox and the now-deleted post here saying it's not worth the money; you don't think that affects people's decision on the matter?

Can't you just make reasonable statements? An issue slipping through QA doesn't mean something is untested or rushed, at most it means they should expand their QA efforts.

It's your attitude that's attracting the flak, not the fact you have a complaint.