Afghanistan - Why we fight

[Skybird]

Great relief to know what our soldiers give their lives for.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15991641

Afghan President Hamid Karzai has pardoned a rape victim who was jailed for adultery after she apparently agreed to marry her attacker.

The woman, named as Gulnaz, gave birth in jail to a daughter who has been serving her sentence with her.

Human rights groups say hundreds of women in Afghan jails are victims of rape or domestic violence.

Gulnaz's lawyer told the BBC she hoped that the government would allow Gulnaz freedom of choice.

"In my conversations with Gulnaz she told me that if she had the free choice she would not marry the man who raped her," said Kimberley Motley.

Earlier this month, Gulnaz told the BBC that after she was raped she was charged with adultery.

"At first my sentence was two years," she said. "When I appealed it became 12 years. I didn't do anything. Why should I be sentenced for so long?"

[gimpy117]

the thing is though, we never really went there foe the reason. 1st, the US went in for Osama, who turned up in Pakistan, second...Oil interest, There's no coincidence the president of Afghanistan was one high ranking on a board or committee of some kind to run an oil pipeline through said country. It was denied but since the invasion has magically been allowed to proceed, due to the taliban not being in power. I'd like to think that were doing good, but I really doubt the good overweighs the bad, especially in the long run when we HAVE to leave

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

the thing is though, we never really went there foe the reason. 1st, the US went in for Osama, who turned up in Pakistan, second...Oil interest, There's no coincidence the president of Afghanistan was one high ranking on a board or committee of some kind to run an oil pipeline through said country. It was denied but since the invasion has magically been allowed to proceed, due to the taliban not being in power. I'd like to think that were doing good, but I really doubt the good overweighs the bad, especially in the long run when we HAVE to leave

You really think that we sent troops to Afghanistan for oil?

[Rockstar]

Did we initially get involved over oil? I don't think so. But since vast quantities of caesium, lithium, tantalum, gold, niobium and other precious metals have been discovered we might need to defend freedom and democracy just a little bit longer until we can figure out how to exploit those resources.


.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

You really think that we sent troops to Afghanistan for oil?

no, not really, we got in for a lot of reasons...but that pipeline hasn't deducted from them. Theres a lot of reasons why we are still there other than the Taliban and "freeing the people"

[Sammi79]

I thought it was more to do with keeping our junkies up to their eyeballs in gear, whilst at the same time keeping it illegal here so we can eternally rip them off over it. Added bonus of providing jobs in the military. Anyone fancy a career in getting blown up and shot at for imaginary justifications?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

You really think that we sent troops to Afghanistan for oil?

He is right, but the reason is not that obvious. It is not about the opil industry in Afghanistan itzself, but the trafficking schemes of oil distribution, and establishing covering shields for pipelines running in and through that region.

It is much the same with Iraq. Initially it was the reaction to 9/11 of course, but that reaction also opened a window of opportunity for what else would have been tried by other means. Here again it was not about stealing Iraqi oil by filling it into bottles and smuggling it out of the country, but abvout establishing as much ifnluence in the Iraqi oil industry as possible to be able to influence and if possible control the flow of oil from iraqi production: where does it go, how much gets priduced, and who can optionally be denied to be supplied by Iraqi oil (China...). That Halliburton and Carlyle group and their subordinate contractors and comanies additionally tried to catch as many lobbied business cointracts at "profit-intensified" conditions int he wake of this operation, and at the cost of the American tax payer, was just the cream on the cake by which to take some word-leaders and key supervisors with close monetary ties to these companies (Cheney and the others) wanted to fill their own pockets and that of their buddies as well.

It's not always about oil in the meaning of getting it for oneself. But it is almost always - at least also is about - about global oil distribution and selling patterns, their control and manipulation, at least securing the options to manipulate them.

---

On Afghanistan, I am still absolutely pessimiostic, as I always have been since I wrote that long long essay of mine in 2006. There will be no peace becasue a peaceful Afghanistan is absolutely against Paklistan'S interest which needs control and infleunce in Afghanistan to secure it as a geo-strategic resource against India, and to prevent India gaining influence in Afghanistan. One day Wetserners will be totally fed up, to a degree that even the meaniest of polticians no longer can sell to the public that the tropps must stay, then the armies from North america and Europoe will pullk out - and civil war will break out. Not too much has been gained in freedom and welath in Afghnaistan in the past 10 years - and the little that has been gained is doomed to get lost to Pakistan-influenced fundamentalists again, with tribe leaders again fighting for their own power and drug profits.

It's hopeless, and thus a waste of Western resources.

[the_tyrant]

The problem is, can Afganistan be profitable?

200 years ago, colonialism is simply a land grab, grabbing the most land was the goal

But than, I thought about it, not all areas can effectively be converted to profit, or the margins are so low its not worth it

After all, its not like anyone still believes in "white man's burden", therefore, not every piece of land is worth taking, and not every puppet government, every concession is going to be profitable

I still believe that Afganistan lacks profitablility, after all, the East India Company failed to find Afganistan profitable. Even after 150+ years of technological advancement, I still fail to see the profit it Afganistan.

Also, it seems like its more expensive to wage war nowadays, further decreasing the projected profits of Afganistan

[Skybird]

Look, what did I say about Afghanistan and civil war after the troops pulling out? I just stumbled over this:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...801253,00.html

(...)
The paper quotes what it describes as a secret, collaborative appraisal by the US and German militaries as saying: "When the ISAF troops leave the country, there will be civil war." (Eds. note: Quote translated from the German.) The paper says that once withdrawal is complete, leaders of the insurgency, who are currently in Pakistan, "will return to Afghanistan."

While it is certainly no secret that the situation in Afghanistan remains far from stable, the pessimism displayed in the secret documents stands in stark contrast with the message political leaders have been eager to convey. Just
(...)
The Bild story also claimed that the documents contained indications that the Afghanistan intelligence service had participated in attacks on the German military, and that German weapons had ended up in the hands of Taliban fighters.

The revelations printed in Bild are the first time that high-level doubts about the efficacy of NATO's engagement in Afghanistan have reached the public eye. Several analysts have openly doubted whether the international community will be able to beat back the Taliban sufficiently by 2014 to enable Afghanistan's military and police forces to maintain control. Just this autumn, a top German general said that the mission in the country had failed.
(...)

Not that it takes a rocket scientist. And yes, it may be just the Bild-Zeitung the article bases on and refers to, but still -