Is North Dakota really a US state?

Feuer Frei! · 07-13-11, 10:29 PM

Read on:

North Dakota is amending its constitution because of a long-standing technical omission that some claim makes its statehood invalid. So does that mean it's really just a US territory and not a state at all?
Every American child is taught there are 50 states in the US.
But an 82-year-old care home resident in Grand Forks, North Dakota, is throwing the truth of that universally held statement into some doubt.
While reading the state constitution, which is 40 years older than he is, John Rolczynski noticed it omitted to mention the executive branch when explaining which new officers need to take the oath supporting the US Constitution.
This, he says, makes the state constitution invalid because it is in conflict with the federal constitution, which requires all officers of the three branches of state government - executive, judicial and legislative - be bound by the oath.

Mr Rolczynski's detective work began in 1995. Sixteen years later, state senator Tim Mathern of Fargo has successfully introduced a bill to amend section 4 of article XI of the state constitution.
The amendment has been passed by the state legislature and must now be approved by the people of North Dakota at the general election in 2012.
Speaking from the care home to which he is confined with Parkinson's Disease, John Rolczynski says he feels vindicated at the end of a long campaign, in which he had even written to President Bill Clinton, but received no reply.

"The amendment will be voted on in November 2012. In the interim, North Dakota is a territory."
So the US only has 49 states? Not according to one expert.
North Dakota's statehood is safe, says Cheryl Hanna, a constitutional expert at Vermont Law School, although it presents an interesting question about constitutional conflict.
It is correct, she says, that Article Six of the US Constitution requires all legislative, executive and judicial officers in the state to be bound by an oath to uphold the US Constitution.
But that condition is separate from Article Four which gives Congress power to decide when to admit a state.
"One way of looking at this is that Article Six and Article Four are distinct articles under the Constitution. Congress can approve a state under any rules that it sets and that is a separate and distinct question from whether each state has taken the right constitutional steps."
There is also the Enabling Act in 1889 under which North Dakota became a state, she says. It says in Section Four that the state constitutions should "not be repugnant to the Constitution of the United States and the principles of the Declaration of Independence".
It's clear that North Dakota's mistake does not contravene the spirit of the Enabling Act, says Ms Hanna.
"It's like a dressing oversight rather than a constitutional crisis," he says. "Congress approved North Dakota as a state, so theoretically Congress would need to take the decision to disapprove it as a state.

Other states have shown much greater unrest, as recently as this week. In California, elected officials from southern and eastern parts of the state are attempting to break away and form a 51st state called South California.
In a demonstration of anger with the actions of the state government, the Riverside County Board of Supervisors voted 4-0 on Tuesday to discuss the proposal further in the autumn.
Regardless of a "hiccup" like this, North Dakota has demonstrated its worth to the US in many ways, says Sarah Walker of the State Historical Society.
"Our military presence has been a very strong asset. Many men died for their country.
"During the Spanish-American War and the Philippine insurrection, soldiers from this state fairly jumped at serving.
"One group of about 25 scouts were made up of approximately 17 North Dakotans; eight of them received the Medal of Honor for special acts of bravery."
For some, statehood is measured in deeds rather than words.

SOURCE

TLAM Strike · 07-13-11, 10:33 PM

So we have states that are not valid states, a president who is not really an American, what else can go wrong?

... dear god don't tell me, are we still really a British Colony!

TorpX · 07-13-11, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

So we have states that are not valid states, a president who is not really an American, what else can go wrong?

... dear god don't tell me, are we still really a British Colony!

We should be so lucky.

Feuer Frei! · 07-13-11, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

So we have states that are not valid states, a president who is not really an American, what else has gone wrong?

Fixed.
What else?
Don't spend so much on your defense, you're not listening to the Texan that i linked to, install him as President, get your navy and air force below 20% reported running troubles, bribe Blizzard to get me a CE of Diablo 3 for free, cut all military aid to Pakistan, i'm sure there's more.

papa_smurf · 07-14-11, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

So we have states that are not valid states, a president who is not really an American, what else can go wrong?

... dear god don't tell me, are we still really a British Colony!

Your always welcome to re-join us

kraznyi_oktjabr · 07-14-11, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa_smurf

Your always welcome to re-join us

Are you sure? 300+ million people where no matter what you do approximately half seem to be unhappy.

Be Democrat, Republicans are worshipping the Holy Dollar
Be Republican, Democrats are in same bed with the Devil

Did I forget something?

Sailor Steve · 07-14-11, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

Did I forget something?

Be neither and both will call you a sell-out or a fence-sitter. You can't win.

Herr-Berbunch · 07-14-11, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

... dear god don't tell me, are we still really a British Colony!

Yes, but a little less water in the tea next time, please. And a drop of milk. Give it a little stir. Good lad - you'll go far.

Onkel Neal · 07-14-11, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

For some, statehood is measured in deeds rather than words.

For Texas, it's words. LOTS of words

Gerald · 07-14-11, 01:05 PM

.....

Sailor Steve · 07-14-11, 04:04 PM

You're late...way late.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=185562

Are you even reading the things other people post?

Gerald · 07-14-11, 05:32 PM

Maybe late,but I changed!

TLAM Strike · 07-14-11, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Are you even reading the things other people post?

Pffft who does that? This is the internet Steve!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendor

Maybe late,but I changed!

In to what?!

Gerald · 07-14-11, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

You're late...way late.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=185562

Are you even reading the things other people post?

Yes, I do definitely, and that there will be duplicate records, which you quoted here, is not news, if I could make a list, it will probably be quite long, with people posting what I have already done, but I do not upset me, respect it.

Sailor Steve · 07-14-11, 06:29 PM

I only asked because it seems like that was a fairly popular thread, and I couldn't see how anyone could have missed it.

07-13-11, 10:29 PM	#1
Feuer Frei! Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Valhalla Posts: 5,295 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 17	Is North Dakota really a US state? Read on: North Dakota is amending its constitution because of a long-standing technical omission that some claim makes its statehood invalid. So does that mean it's really just a US territory and not a state at all? Every American child is taught there are 50 states in the US. But an 82-year-old care home resident in Grand Forks, North Dakota, is throwing the truth of that universally held statement into some doubt. While reading the state constitution, which is 40 years older than he is, John Rolczynski noticed it omitted to mention the executive branch when explaining which new officers need to take the oath supporting the US Constitution. This, he says, makes the state constitution invalid because it is in conflict with the federal constitution, which requires all officers of the three branches of state government - executive, judicial and legislative - be bound by the oath. Mr Rolczynski's detective work began in 1995. Sixteen years later, state senator Tim Mathern of Fargo has successfully introduced a bill to amend section 4 of article XI of the state constitution. The amendment has been passed by the state legislature and must now be approved by the people of North Dakota at the general election in 2012. Speaking from the care home to which he is confined with Parkinson's Disease, John Rolczynski says he feels vindicated at the end of a long campaign, in which he had even written to President Bill Clinton, but received no reply. "The amendment will be voted on in November 2012. In the interim, North Dakota is a territory." So the US only has 49 states? Not according to one expert. North Dakota's statehood is safe, says Cheryl Hanna, a constitutional expert at Vermont Law School, although it presents an interesting question about constitutional conflict. It is correct, she says, that Article Six of the US Constitution requires all legislative, executive and judicial officers in the state to be bound by an oath to uphold the US Constitution. But that condition is separate from Article Four which gives Congress power to decide when to admit a state. "One way of looking at this is that Article Six and Article Four are distinct articles under the Constitution. Congress can approve a state under any rules that it sets and that is a separate and distinct question from whether each state has taken the right constitutional steps." There is also the Enabling Act in 1889 under which North Dakota became a state, she says. It says in Section Four that the state constitutions should "not be repugnant to the Constitution of the United States and the principles of the Declaration of Independence". It's clear that North Dakota's mistake does not contravene the spirit of the Enabling Act, says Ms Hanna. "It's like a dressing oversight rather than a constitutional crisis," he says. "Congress approved North Dakota as a state, so theoretically Congress would need to take the decision to disapprove it as a state. Other states have shown much greater unrest, as recently as this week. In California, elected officials from southern and eastern parts of the state are attempting to break away and form a 51st state called South California. In a demonstration of anger with the actions of the state government, the Riverside County Board of Supervisors voted 4-0 on Tuesday to discuss the proposal further in the autumn. Regardless of a "hiccup" like this, North Dakota has demonstrated its worth to the US in many ways, says Sarah Walker of the State Historical Society. "Our military presence has been a very strong asset. Many men died for their country. "During the Spanish-American War and the Philippine insurrection, soldiers from this state fairly jumped at serving. "One group of about 25 scouts were made up of approximately 17 North Dakotans; eight of them received the Medal of Honor for special acts of bravery." For some, statehood is measured in deeds rather than words. SOURCE __________________ "History is the lies that the victors agree on"- Napoleon LINK TO MY SH 3 MODS

07-13-11, 10:33 PM	#2
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	So we have states that are not valid states, a president who is not really an American, what else can go wrong? ... dear god don't tell me, are we still really a British Colony! __________________

07-14-11, 01:05 PM	#10
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	..... ..... __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie Last edited by Gerald; 07-14-11 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Already posted!

07-14-11, 04:04 PM	#11
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	You're late...way late. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=185562 Are you even reading the things other people post? __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

07-14-11, 05:32 PM	#12
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Maybe late,but I changed! __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

07-14-11, 06:29 PM	#15
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I only asked because it seems like that was a fairly popular thread, and I couldn't see how anyone could have missed it. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo