America can be a superpower or a welfare state, but not both.

[Onkel Neal]

...and being a welfare state is a bad option.

Mr. Gates knows well that America won't balance its budget by squeezing the Pentagon. "If you cut the defense budget by 10%, which would be catastrophic in terms of force structure, that's $55 billion out of a $1.4 trillion deficit," he told the Journal's CEO Council conference last November. "We are not the problem."

So what is? Mr. Gates acknowledged it only in passing this week, but the reality is that the entitlement state is crowding out national defense. Over two decades ago, liberal historian Paul Kennedy claimed that "imperial overstretch" had brought first the Romans, then the British and now Americans down to size. He was wrong then, but what's really happening now is "entitlement overstretch," to quote military analyst Andrew Krepinevich.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...pinion_LEADTop

[gimpy117]

so its better to have the power to kill anybody we want at the drop of a hat...but not be able to help our own people. The world has changed, it's not the cold war. it's time we realized that

[Anthony W.]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

so its better to have the power to kill anybody we want at the drop of a hat...but not be able to help our own people. The world has changed, it's not the cold war. it's time we realized that

Our military doesn't JUST influence our ability to kill. It gives us more bargaining power diplomatically and majorly affects the economy...

I am getting REALLY sick of pacifists.

Also, there are a lot of nutjobs that are close to getting their hands on nukes. We have more to worry about now than we did in the closing stages of the cold war, and all through the 90's and early 2000's

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Anthony W.

Our military doesn't JUST influence our ability to kill. It gives us more bargaining power diplomatically and majorly affects the economy...

I am getting REALLY sick of pacifists.

Also, there are a lot of nutjobs that are close to getting their hands on nukes. We have more to worry about now than we did in the closing stages of the cold war, and all through the 90's and early 2000's

I'm not a pacifist, you assume much, but I'm not so privy to strong arming the world.

also, Nukes are not something that can be dealt with with armies, If terrorists get a nuke 30,000 men make no more difference than a 5 man team sent to disable them. and, if a country has nukes, they can use them if they really want to. Our huge standing army can just watch.

remember, in the end, how many troops did we need to get bin laden?

a defense department is important to a country, but i feel we have let it become to influential and expensive for it and it's countries own good

[Anthony W.]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

I'm not a pacifist, you assume much, but I'm not so privy to strong arming the world.

also, Nukes are not something that can be dealt with with armies, If terrorists get a nuke 30,000 men make no more difference than a 5 man team sent to disable them.

remember, in the end, how many troops did we need to get bin laden?

I was making that pacifist statement generally - didn't mean to come off that way

Nukes can't be dealt with troops, that is true - unless that country only has a few. But they can be dealt with submarines, planes, tanks, ships, missiles, and of course other nukes

And - I'm not so sure the whole Bin Laden thing wasn't made up. Politicians on both sides have faked military victories, put false dates on events that are being declassified, ect, just to win reelection. To me it doesn't matter. I'm only voting for 1 incumbent this next election, and thats at a local level.

[yubba]

What part of we're broke don't you understand front, middle, back. Talked to my folks up north, farmers can't get to the fields, for they are too wet, and the heartland is flooded, so hang on boys and girls things are about to get bad, it's one thing to be a welfare state, it's another when you can't feed or shelter them.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by yubba

What part of we're broke don't you understand front, middle, back. Talked to my folks up north, farmers can't get to the fields, for they are to wet, and the heartland is flooded, so hang on boys and girls things are about to get bad, it's one thing to be a welfare state, it's another when you can't feed or shelter them.

and that ties into my point, the country needs a budget balancing, but the DoD is the 800 pound Gorilla the GOP isn't willing to even mo much as mention. They say they'll roll back to 2008 levels, which isn't much at all...because we were STILL in 2 wars then.

[PeriscopeDepth]

The military needs to understand the Cold War is over. Looking at platforms being pursued for acquisition, force structures, and places the American military has a large, permanent presence sometimes you would not know it.

That being said, our military should still be strong one. And still can be after massive cuts with its bloated size.

PD

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Anthony W.

Our military doesn't JUST influence our ability to kill. It gives us more bargaining power diplomatically and majorly affects the economy...

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

so its better to have the power to kill anybody we want at the drop of a hat...but not be able to help our own people. The world has changed, it's not the cold war. it's time we realized that

Did it ever occur to you that having the ability to "kill anybody we want at the drop of a hat" creates the ABILITY to help our own people ... all the while preserving our Constitutional freedoms?

Your naivete is astounding. Being a superpower with the ability to project our will and way of life is what gives us the ability to do ... well ... anything.

You believe that the world has changed from the Cold War era. Duh. But Gates is not talking about an arms race - he's referring to maintaining force levels.

The fact of the matter is that we've become a lazy nation. Too many people expect the government to do things for them that they could do themselves. Resistance to Paul Ryan's healthcare proposals is demonstrative of this. Medicare? Takes care of everything - you just fill out the forms (but really you don't, because most providers have staff to do that for you, and indirectly Medicare pays for that as well). Vouchers? Well now - you must do your own research, make your own decisions, etc.

We'll take Medicare, right?

At the end of the day I wonder if we should all merely surrender any freedoms we have left because we are so intent upon doing so anyway. Part of freedom is failure and suffering the consequences thereof. However, preserving the ability to openly engage in this very debate protected by the US Constitution seems worthy of any cost. So if that means we have to balance the budget on the backs of those least WILLING to engage in any semblance of self-sufficiency, so be it.

[the_tyrant]

the loss of superpower status will be catastrophic, it will cause an increased reduction of tax revenue

[nikimcbee]

So Neal, are you running for office?