Public Insensitivity? Or is Enough Enough?

[Krauter]

I was meaning to write this topic for a while now, but it kind of fell to the back of my mind with exams and all. But after making a trip to the Olympic stadium a few days ago this topic came back to mind.

What I'm wondering about is on the topic of the homeless people who beg and ask for money at any opportunity.

I'll put a little perspective in this. Here in Montreal, I need to use the Metro (ie: Subway system and bus system) everyday. Be it to get to school, groceries or whatnot. Every time I go to the closest subway station there is always at least 3-4 beggers there.

That's fine, every cities probably got that. But, these I find different. For example; when I visited Vancouver, I saw homeless people begging, but they just sat there with a cup.
Now in Montreal, I see at least two or three homeless people with amputated limbs (ie: They wait for you inside the subway station with their shirts off and pants rolled up so you can see their limbs). At first I was repelled a little, now I find myself not caring or getting a little angry I see them. The situation is similar with other people as well who won't even look at all or spare a second glance.

My whole meaning to this thread (which to me sounds kind of rambling on..) is:

a) Who is in the 'wrong' here? Me/Population; for not paying attention or feeling nothing towards these people. Or the homeless begger who is obviously attempting to use his amputated limbs as a means to get money. (Theres also a man who either has dimentia or is just.. special, who screams incoherently at you asking for... food? money? I don't know.. I still don't feel anything towards him but a little bit of frustration).

and

b) Is this an example of people being in such close proximity that we don't view each other as people but merely objects anymore. As well as the whole Western thing that gore doesn't really turn our stomachs as much as it does in Europe?

Cheers

Krauter

[Platapus]

Within the laws, they have a right to beg for money
you have a right to not give them money.

No one is in the "wrong" here.

It is only when one tries to interfere with the other's right that there is a problem.

Personally, I don't give money to people begging in the streets. Instead I regularly donate to specific charities that I know put the money to good use.

However, if others wish to give money directly, that's their decision.

We all do what we feel is the best. And none of us should feel guilty about it.

[GoldenRivet]

I agree with Platapus here on all points.

Something detrimental has taken place in their lives to put them into this position. i wouldnt go so far as to say "society has failed them" because usually they got into that position by faults of their own - alcohol abuse - drug abuse etc

I also know it is a fact that there are people who take to "pan handling" for a living.

that is that they make respectable careers out of begging... some of which reportedly bring in $30-50,000 annually just by begging, they are in fact home owners or renters and in all likelihood own a car and have a nice place to stay at the end of the day.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I agree with Platapus here on all points.

Whaaat?

Notify the administrators, someone hacked his account.

[Takeda Shingen]

I agree with both Plat and GR. They do have the right to ask for money. You also have the right to retain your money. Those would be the rules.

[Armistead]

My wife is a part time social worker at a state hospital, so she tells me some heartbreaking stories. The constant theme she hears is.."I never thought this could happen to me or my family."

If you have a job, medical insurance, home, family support...most view homelessness as "enough is enough."
If you lose your job, get seriously ill forcing you into poverty and no support..."public insensitivity."

The problem will always be two fold. You have many that have no choice but to be homeless and others that prefer it and do it for a living. For those that need help, they find it hard to get it due to all the red tape.

Homelessness has tripled in the last 10 years.

There is a big city lake behind my house surrounded by several thousand acres. In the last few years homeless people have built small tent cities around the lake, use the shelters for water, etc...The police run them out, but they come back. I would say 80% are the former white middle class, homes foreclosed, no jobs. I was shocked to find a disabled man that once lived in my neighborhood living back there. He had no disability plan and was waiting for SS approval, no income, no family. He stayed in his home until the sheriff removed him and just moved into the woods behind his home. I helped get him on medicare and he was in line waiting for S8 housing.

Many of the homeless are those ill, can't get proper meds or treatment.
Many think sick can go get free treatment and help from state hospitals or clinics, that's seldom the case unless a life threatening emergency. The red tape is as long as the wait. All levels of government are cutting programs that help the homeless.

Right now they say 72% of foreclosures are due to unemployment, people that once worked can't find work, more effected are the skilled trades. Millions more to come this year. If these people still can't find jobs, they can't even pay rent....sadly a number of them will end up homeless.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Whaaat?

Notify the administrators, someone hacked his account.

LOL

Originally Posted by Platapus

Instead I regularly donate to specific charities that I know put the money to good use.

now... onto the point of "Does the Federal Government have the right to tax me so that they can serve as a charity?" with that question, many folks here can likely get back to disagreeing with one another

[Skybird]

Beggars should be forbidden. You feel guilty if you don't give them money, and you feel guilty if you do.

[Sailor Steve]

It may seem strange, but I used to give money to panhandlers, even when I was poor. Being homeless myself actually cured me of it. When I lived in the homeless shelter I quickly discovered that there were several places to get free food, including a Catholic-run dining room and hangout right across the street from a large mall. One day I was walking to the soup kitchen when a healthy-looking young man asked me for a couple of bucks so he could get something to eat. I told him to come with me, as I was on my way to the free lunch and it was right around the corner. I can't repeat his reply here.

No one starves here unless they want to. If the free food available doesn't suit your taste, fine, but don't ask me for money so you don't have to eat what I do.

[Freiwillige]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Beggars should be forbidden. You feel guilty if you don't give them money, and you feel guilty if you do.

Actually this is so true.

[Krauter]

At Platapus and GR, I'm not disputing their right to pan handle or beg.

The whole point of this thread is to see whether seeing such things makes people insensitive about this or is it just society moving in that direction at all.


A for the who is right and who is wrong. Again I'm not disputing begging. I don't care if the guy is sitting there bundled up in a sleeping bag or showing me his amputated limbs, I'm not going to give him money.

What I meant by who is in the wrong, is compared to other beggars who sit there with a cup/sign what ever, are these people who try to play off of emotions (showing amputated limbs to bloody 4 year olds for christ sake) worse?

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Beggars should be forbidden. You feel guilty if you don't give them money, and you feel guilty if you do.

I don't feel anything towards them.

[Buddahaid]

Says it all.

[Feuer Frei!]

My thoughts on this is that on the topic of begging for instance is that unless You have been in that situation before moreoften than not you will not give that person money. Like Sailor Steve, i have, many years ago been in a pretty bad situation but, luckily i had family and friends to get me through the bad trot.
Keep in mind that a lot of the beggars or street urchins or whatever you want to call them do not have the support of loved ones. Sure, you may argue that, like Sailor Steve you do have a choice. A choice of going to a refuge for food or the local welfare agencies for food vouchers or such, etc etc.
Easier said than done. Not everyone has the capabilities or means to do that.
Unless you can "relate" to a person being in the dumps, and possibly begging for money or food then it is always difficult to understand and easier even to ridicule and wave away.
On a side-note, what do we class a beggar? Someone purely who is dressed in rags and is filthy and sits on the corner of a street? Or someone who offers entertainment, like a busker or somesuch and has a hat for any donations for his 'services' for want of a better word?
Are we stereotyping the word beggar? Or are we being technical? Because you can be forgiven for thinking that both examples above can be classed as beggars, even if you are performing or such in a mall.
On a sidenote=i do donate to less fortunate souls than myself, because i know all too well what it is like to be down in the dumps.
HOWEVER, i also believe we as a society need to do more for our fellow citizens, the state governments and federal ofc take the full brunt of the responsibility in this.
The gap btw rich and poor has always, and always will be a issue, which does not help the average 'beggar' off the streets.
On addressing the thread title in general, i absolutely believe that we have always been a race where we are quick to judge, quick to ridicule and quick to condemn.
Nothing new there. The weak get weaker, the strong become stronger, most of us stronger ones couldn't give a rat's arse about they guy who just lost his job, lost his wife, lost his kids and lost his savings because some a**hole broke into his house and murdered his family while he was at work getting the sack!
Ok ok, that's a seriously extreme and disturbing example, but you get my point right?
Hell, we are too absorbed in our own crap that everything else, or rather everyone else is always on the outer.
Even worse when it's disabled people or beggars or 'so-called' low-lives of the society who shouldn't deserve the tax-payer's money because they couldn't be bothered getting off their a**es and getting a job. Pah! Well, if it was only as simple as that. Generalizing each and every street bum and beggar and druggy like that, would be too simple.
But, that's what we do isn't it.
A pathetic race we are indeed.
Too caught up in our own materialistic bull*** to help our fellow neighbour, or the person on the street who needs a guiding light.
Job of welfare agencies or social workers?
Exactly, too easy to pass the buck isn't it?

[nikimcbee]

In ore-gone, it is a lifestyle choice, and the city panders to them.