ciws shooting into the water

tmdgm · 12-07-10, 09:16 PM

I have CIWS set to full auto, there's a missile inbound from a bomber coming in at ~90 deg to starboard, but the ciws fires into the water, and fires into the water on the port side. Am I missing something? Only way I can survive is by putting show truth on and using an SM-2 to intercept while the phalanx fires into the water.

Also, with show truth turned off, seems impossible to intercept with an SM-2. From the time I get an EW message, to assign as a target in weapons control, i'm usually dead. With the phalanx not working, makes it impossible to survive a missile attack, countermeasures didn't seem to do much.

Just a note, it wouldn't let me classify the missile as hostile in EW. It has friendly lit up in green.

Molon Labe · 12-07-10, 09:35 PM

Sounds like N. Atlantic Convoy, and the missile is an AS-4 Kitchen.

There are a lot of things going wrong that make this happen.

1. DW doesn't calculate lead very well for anything. This affects guns very badly.

2. The AS-4 is supposed to be a high-altitude weapon, but in DW it cruises below 300 feet, making it hard to detect on radar. It's 'normal' in DW to get hit by an AS-4 before detecting it on radar.

3. The AS-4 acquires its target from dozens of km away, but in DW all missiles have the same 10 nmi seeker...

4. ... compounding this problem, ESM sensors are set up so they won't detect missile seeker emissions outside the 10 nmi a seeker can acquire a target. So it's 'normal' in DW to get hit by an AS-4 seconds after detecting it on ESM... and before you're able to deploy chaff or fire an SM-2.

5. CIWS really can't handle super fast weapons like the AS-4 anyways, by the time it's in range it's already hit you (and even if you hit it, it still hits you--inertia is a bitch). The Navy devleoped the SM-2/AEGIS system for high altitude supersonic threats and the ESSM and RAM SAMs for low altitude threats. DW's CIWS more or less represents this in the final outcome, although the simulated mechanics leave much to be desired.

The good news is, LWAMI 3.10 corrects 2, 3, and 4. You'll see the AS-4 coming from 50nm+ on radar and get it on ESM the moment it enables. It's a sucker for chaff once you get early warning.

Sorry for the plug.

tmdgm · 12-07-10, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Sounds like N. Atlantic Convoy, and the missile is an AS-4 Kitchen.

There are a lot of things going wrong that make this happen.

1. DW doesn't calculate lead very well for anything. This affects guns very badly.

2. The AS-4 is supposed to be a high-altitude weapon, but in DW it cruises below 300 feet, making it hard to detect on radar. It's 'normal' in DW to get hit by an AS-4 before detecting it on radar.

3. The AS-4 acquires its target from dozens of km away, but in DW all missiles have the same 10 nmi seeker...

4. ... compounding this problem, ESM sensors are set up so they won't detect missile seeker emissions outside the 10 nmi a seeker can acquire a target. So it's 'normal' in DW to get hit by an AS-4 seconds after detecting it on ESM... and before you're able to deploy chaff or fire an SM-2.

5. CIWS really can't handle super fast weapons like the AS-4 anyways, by the time it's in range it's already hit you (and even if you hit it, it still hits you--inertia is a bitch). The Navy devleoped the SM-2/AEGIS system for high altitude supersonic threats and the ESSM and RAM SAMs for low altitude threats. DW's CIWS more or less represents this in the final outcome, although the simulated mechanics leave much to be desired.

The good news is, LWAMI 3.10 corrects 2, 3, and 4. You'll see the AS-4 coming from 50nm+ on radar and get it on ESM the moment it enables. It's a sucker for chaff once you get early warning.

Sorry for the plug.

Thanks!! Yup, it's the atlantic convoy mission. I'm using lwami 3.09. Haven't installed 3.1 yet. But yea, you hit it right on the head, EW detects it i'd say ~7 seconds before it hits. Radar detects it maybe 3 secs before it hits. CIWS doesn't seem to stand a chance.

Thanks, I'll give 3.10 a try.

So should I expect phalanx to have a shot at hitting when i install 3.10? Or do I need to use sm-2 and chaff?

TLAM Strike · 12-07-10, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmdgm

So should I expect phalanx to have a shot at hitting when i install 3.10? Or do I need to use sm-2 and chaff?

No the CIWS most likely will still over/undershoot.

But you should still have sufficient Early Warning to blind the Kitchens with chaff.

tmdgm · 12-08-10, 10:36 PM

Bummer, does the CIWS work for any of the missiles in the game? Or just doesn't work for the AS-4?

That's a real bummer if it doesn't work at all.

Molon Labe · 12-08-10, 11:48 PM

Oh, it's nearly 100% against anything subsonic. That's what I meant when I said the outcome of the CIWS model ends up about right. It gets the slow ones every time, and misses the fast ones every time. I doubt the real CIWS is 100%-0% but it's definitely meant for the slower ones.

12-07-10, 09:16 PM	#1
tmdgm Engineer Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 219 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	ciws shooting into the water I have CIWS set to full auto, there's a missile inbound from a bomber coming in at ~90 deg to starboard, but the ciws fires into the water, and fires into the water on the port side. Am I missing something? Only way I can survive is by putting show truth on and using an SM-2 to intercept while the phalanx fires into the water. Also, with show truth turned off, seems impossible to intercept with an SM-2. From the time I get an EW message, to assign as a target in weapons control, i'm usually dead. With the phalanx not working, makes it impossible to survive a missile attack, countermeasures didn't seem to do much. Just a note, it wouldn't let me classify the missile as hostile in EW. It has friendly lit up in green.

12-07-10, 09:35 PM	#2
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	Sounds like N. Atlantic Convoy, and the missile is an AS-4 Kitchen. There are a lot of things going wrong that make this happen. 1. DW doesn't calculate lead very well for anything. This affects guns very badly. 2. The AS-4 is supposed to be a high-altitude weapon, but in DW it cruises below 300 feet, making it hard to detect on radar. It's 'normal' in DW to get hit by an AS-4 before detecting it on radar. 3. The AS-4 acquires its target from dozens of km away, but in DW all missiles have the same 10 nmi seeker... 4. ... compounding this problem, ESM sensors are set up so they won't detect missile seeker emissions outside the 10 nmi a seeker can acquire a target. So it's 'normal' in DW to get hit by an AS-4 seconds after detecting it on ESM... and before you're able to deploy chaff or fire an SM-2. 5. CIWS really can't handle super fast weapons like the AS-4 anyways, by the time it's in range it's already hit you (and even if you hit it, it still hits you--inertia is a bitch). The Navy devleoped the SM-2/AEGIS system for high altitude supersonic threats and the ESSM and RAM SAMs for low altitude threats. DW's CIWS more or less represents this in the final outcome, although the simulated mechanics leave much to be desired. The good news is, LWAMI 3.10 corrects 2, 3, and 4. You'll see the AS-4 coming from 50nm+ on radar and get it on ESM the moment it enables. It's a sucker for chaff once you get early warning. Sorry for the plug. __________________

12-08-10, 11:48 PM	#6
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	Oh, it's nearly 100% against anything subsonic. That's what I meant when I said the outcome of the CIWS model ends up about right. It gets the slow ones every time, and misses the fast ones every time. I doubt the real CIWS is 100%-0% but it's definitely meant for the slower ones. __________________

12-08-10, 10:36 PM	#5
tmdgm Engineer Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 219 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Bummer, does the CIWS work for any of the missiles in the game? Or just doesn't work for the AS-4? That's a real bummer if it doesn't work at all.