Question About DW vs Sub Command

johnnyr · 10-14-10, 11:31 AM

Hello!

I've recently discovered dangerous waters, and was reading the landlubbers guide. It's been extremely helpful. I just had a question, regarding an editorial note the author made:

First, an editorial note. For sub vs. sub battles, Sub Command was an amazing game. The
effective use of torpedoes, and the decoys that foiled them, was a battle of the minds of the
opposing sub skippers. It is unfortunate that, in DW, SCS has installed an omnicient auto-
TMA, increased the acquisition ranges of the weapons, and caused weapons to explode on
CMs. They fixed that which was not broken, and DW is quite a bit worse off for it, since
employing and evading weapons is decided by quanities of weapons and CMs more than on
the skill in which they are used. I guess new players will learn more quickly this way - and
munchkins will thrive - but it hurts the enjoyment levels for the "skill" players immensely.

This is disappointing, because what I like most is Sub vs Sub combat. Do you guys still feel the same way in this regard?

Does LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod (LWAMI) address this do you think?

I'm just wondering if I should continue with DW or perhaps try to track down a coy of sub command instead =)

Thanks!

John

Molon Labe · 10-14-10, 12:36 PM

Short answer: yes.

Those remarks were made for DW 1.0 or possibly 1.01. 1.04 is much better, and mods make it better still.

SCS themselves toned down the auto TMA, and of course you have the option to play without it (but most players in MP will want it allowed, so it's not always that easy).

SCS also changed DW to give the option to enable/disable explosions on CMs.

LWAMI is set up for no explosions on expendable CMs but for explosions to occur with towed decoys. LWAMI also adjust torpedo acquisition ranges quite a bit, wheras with stock DW all torpedos had the same seeker that would acquire any target at 2nm.

Was that "note" really in the landlubber's guide? It looks familiar....

johnnyr · 10-14-10, 12:51 PM

Thanks for the info. Thats good news that at least it's been addressed in some respects.

The note is in the landlubbers guide, page 35.

Thanks again!

Castout · 10-14-10, 01:02 PM

DWX or RA mod is also set that no torp is going to explode on CM.

There's new weapon doctrines in both LWAMI and DWX(RA). With supermod DW is definitely the better game by large.

Molon Labe · 10-14-10, 01:09 PM

I think I originally posted that "note" as a footnote to the original Landlubber's guide when it was copied to CADC. I removed it a few years after... I forget if it was because DW had progressed beyond the point that it was relevant or because I thought it wasn't really appropriate to be adding unsolicited opinions. Either way, it seems remarks made on the internet have a certain permanence to them...

It looks like most of the information around page 35 is taken from my ASW/ASUW weapons employment posts from CADC's submarine forum. Those are old posts from Stock DW 1.01 or so, and some of the information is out of date. Two things I noticed are that the decoy %ages are from before the player could adjust that in the .ini, and the torpedo ranges are from before torpedo range varied with speed. I've made some edits to those posts over the years and added some updates here and there, but those do not appear in Landlubbers 0.6.

10-14-10, 11:31 AM	#1
johnnyr Watch Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 21 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Question About DW vs Sub Command Hello! I've recently discovered dangerous waters, and was reading the landlubbers guide. It's been extremely helpful. I just had a question, regarding an editorial note the author made: First, an editorial note. For sub vs. sub battles, Sub Command was an amazing game. The effective use of torpedoes, and the decoys that foiled them, was a battle of the minds of the opposing sub skippers. It is unfortunate that, in DW, SCS has installed an omnicient auto- TMA, increased the acquisition ranges of the weapons, and caused weapons to explode on CMs. They fixed that which was not broken, and DW is quite a bit worse off for it, since employing and evading weapons is decided by quanities of weapons and CMs more than on the skill in which they are used. I guess new players will learn more quickly this way - and munchkins will thrive - but it hurts the enjoyment levels for the "skill" players immensely. This is disappointing, because what I like most is Sub vs Sub combat. Do you guys still feel the same way in this regard? Does LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod (LWAMI) address this do you think? I'm just wondering if I should continue with DW or perhaps try to track down a coy of sub command instead =) Thanks! John

10-14-10, 12:36 PM	#2
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	Short answer: yes. Those remarks were made for DW 1.0 or possibly 1.01. 1.04 is much better, and mods make it better still. SCS themselves toned down the auto TMA, and of course you have the option to play without it (but most players in MP will want it allowed, so it's not always that easy). SCS also changed DW to give the option to enable/disable explosions on CMs. LWAMI is set up for no explosions on expendable CMs but for explosions to occur with towed decoys. LWAMI also adjust torpedo acquisition ranges quite a bit, wheras with stock DW all torpedos had the same seeker that would acquire any target at 2nm. Was that "note" really in the landlubber's guide? It looks familiar.... __________________

10-14-10, 01:02 PM	#4
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	DWX or RA mod is also set that no torp is going to explode on CM. There's new weapon doctrines in both LWAMI and DWX(RA). With supermod DW is definitely the better game by large. __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

10-14-10, 01:09 PM	#5
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	I think I originally posted that "note" as a footnote to the original Landlubber's guide when it was copied to CADC. I removed it a few years after... I forget if it was because DW had progressed beyond the point that it was relevant or because I thought it wasn't really appropriate to be adding unsolicited opinions. Either way, it seems remarks made on the internet have a certain permanence to them... It looks like most of the information around page 35 is taken from my ASW/ASUW weapons employment posts from CADC's submarine forum. Those are old posts from Stock DW 1.01 or so, and some of the information is out of date. Two things I noticed are that the decoy %ages are from before the player could adjust that in the .ini, and the torpedo ranges are from before torpedo range varied with speed. I've made some edits to those posts over the years and added some updates here and there, but those do not appear in Landlubbers 0.6. __________________

10-14-10, 12:51 PM	#3
johnnyr Watch Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 21 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the info. Thats good news that at least it's been addressed in some respects. The note is in the landlubbers guide, page 35. Thanks again!