AI classification and counter-detection

FERdeBOER · 09-12-10, 02:55 PM

Maybe this is more a topic for mission editor, but as it maybe involve tactics I will put it here.
Admins, feel free to change it.

Trying some tests myself sneaking with my sub behind a ship (not cavitating, at speeds about 8 to 15 knots) with a counter-detected trigger, I saw that the counter-detection range for the AI is more or less the same with or without ship. Am I right or am I doing something wrong?

Searching in the forum (there are really great discussions, is always interesting dig in the threads) I found that the AI detects you, but can't classify you as a submarine in the mix of frequencies.
Well, this is good, but doesn't serve to make missions...

If I want to make a mission about crossing a strait and one possible choice is to hide behind a ship, is no important whether you are detected or not by an "enemy" sub, but not being ID as a sub. How could this be done if it can be?

Dr.Sid · 09-12-10, 05:44 PM

What if you used the enemy sub in peace-time mode .. and then break the peace-time (rules of engagement) when you are too far from masking ship ?

Molon Labe · 09-13-10, 12:24 AM

You might notice the the AI will never place an unknown sonar contact on the link. That's because they never get unknown sonar contacts. Any contact they get is a classified contact, and their ranges are made to suffer to compensate (a bit too much IMO).

This may not be a satisfying answer, but the solution to the problem is to set it up so that avoiding detection is possible.

FERdeBOER · 09-13-10, 05:43 AM

Thank you both.

Dr Sids option seems better for me, changing the peace mode for detect, so the counterdetection trigger only fires if you get too far from the ship.

Molon's option is not allways possible. The scenario I was trying doesn't give much options to place the enemy submarine.

Thanks again

09-13-10, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

You might notice the the AI will never place an unknown sonar contact on the link. That's because they never get unknown sonar contacts. Any contact they get is a classified contact, and their ranges are made to suffer to compensate (a bit too much IMO).

This may not be a satisfying answer, but the solution to the problem is to set it up so that avoiding detection is possible.

You are mistaken.

LOG from mission:
00000097 18:28:51 [3556] SC2: Loading Interface textdll...
00000098 18:28:51 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: ShipControl.DLL with Unique ID: 10222
00000099 18:28:51 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: SonarBB.DLL with Unique ID: 10212
00000100 18:28:51 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: SonarNB.DLL with Unique ID: 10213
00000101 18:28:51 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: SonarDemon.DLL with Unique ID: 10211
00000102 18:28:52 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: SonarActive.DLL with Unique ID: 10209
00000103 18:28:52 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: SonarIncpt.DLL with Unique ID: 10210
00000104 18:28:52 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: SonarSSP.DLL with Unique ID: 10214
00000105 18:28:52 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: Radar.DLL with Unique ID: 10220
00000106 18:28:52 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: Radio.DLL with Unique ID: 10219
00000107 18:28:52 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: FCTD.DLL with Unique ID: 10217
00000108 18:28:52 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: FCLP.DLL with Unique ID: 10218
00000109 18:28:52 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: FCINV.DLL with Unique ID: 10226
00000110 18:28:52 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: TMA.DLL with Unique ID: 10221
00000111 18:28:52 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: Periscope.DLL with Unique ID: 10216
00000112 18:28:52 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: IceTV.DLL with Unique ID: 10228
00000113 18:28:52 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: Stadimeter.DLL with Unique ID: 10215
00000114 18:28:52 [3556] SC2: Loaded DLL: SailBridge.DLL with Unique ID: 10238
00000115 18:28:53 [3556] SC2: New Track Num 1, ent hull 2, tgt hull 2
00000116 18:28:53 [3556] SC2: STARTING THE REINFORCE ALERT ADD-ON v.1.2
00000117 18:28:54 [3556] stopping file
00000118 18:29:03 [3556] SC2: New Track Num 1002, ent hull 1, tgt hull 2
00000119 18:29:26 [3556] NSE: Improved LA SSN detected by Pondicherry MSO with Active Sonar at rng 3230
00000120 18:34:14 [3556] NSE: Improved LA SSN ID'd Hostile by Pondicherry MSO
00000121 18:34:41 [3556] stopping file
00000122 18:34:41 [3556] SC2: unloading Interface textdll...

Primary detection has taken place in 18:29
18:29:26 [3556] NSE: Improved LA SSN detected by Pondicherry MSO with Active Sonar at rng 3230

Classification as HOSTILE taken place in 18:34
18:34:14 [3556] NSE: Improved LA SSN ID'd Hostile by Pondicherry MSO

Only in 5 minutes ( 18:34 )- (after MSO came nearer to SUB) - there was a classification.

AI of a platform - the unknown contacts can have.

At tactics of movement TRANSIT - this contact remain unknown - because MSO will not do attempts to come nearer to SUB.

If you wish, I can show LOG also for passive sonars - when the contact remain unknown.

Molon Labe · 09-13-10, 12:19 PM

Two questions....

Is this something that the RA mod has changed?
Will the AI ever take any sort of action (prosecute, investigate, link) against one of these contacts before classification?

09-14-10, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Two questions....

Is this something that the RA mod has changed?
Will the AI ever take any sort of action (prosecute, investigate, link) against one of these contacts before classification?

It not features RA of addition.

You can check it on LWAMi - check up FOXTROT vs 688 Imp.

This sub can classify LOS-ANGELES a class from one kilometer (Speed of movement LA - 5 kts).
Primary Detect at 5435 meters:
NSE: Improved LA SSN detected by Foxtrot SS with Passive Sonar at rng 5435

But classification:
NSE: Improved LA SSN ID'd Hostile by Foxtrot SS
Occurs through in 20 minutes - when distance between FOXTROT and LOS-ANGELES was 1050 meters.

20 minutes Los-Angeles the contact was unknown for Foxtrot.

09-12-10, 02:55 PM	#1
FERdeBOER XO Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 431 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 1	AI classification and counter-detection Maybe this is more a topic for mission editor, but as it maybe involve tactics I will put it here. Admins, feel free to change it. Trying some tests myself sneaking with my sub behind a ship (not cavitating, at speeds about 8 to 15 knots) with a counter-detected trigger, I saw that the counter-detection range for the AI is more or less the same with or without ship. Am I right or am I doing something wrong? Searching in the forum (there are really great discussions, is always interesting dig in the threads) I found that the AI detects you, but can't classify you as a submarine in the mix of frequencies. Well, this is good, but doesn't serve to make missions... If I want to make a mission about crossing a strait and one possible choice is to hide behind a ship, is no important whether you are detected or not by an "enemy" sub, but not being ID as a sub. How could this be done if it can be? __________________ Hay dos tipos de buques: los submarinos... y los blancos. There are two types of ships: the subs... and the targets.

09-12-10, 05:44 PM	#2
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	What if you used the enemy sub in peace-time mode .. and then break the peace-time (rules of engagement) when you are too far from masking ship ? __________________ ComSubSim forum at CADC

09-13-10, 12:24 AM	#3
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	You might notice the the AI will never place an unknown sonar contact on the link. That's because they never get unknown sonar contacts. Any contact they get is a classified contact, and their ranges are made to suffer to compensate (a bit too much IMO). This may not be a satisfying answer, but the solution to the problem is to set it up so that avoiding detection is possible. __________________

09-13-10, 05:43 AM	#4
FERdeBOER XO Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 431 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 1	Thank you both. Dr Sids option seems better for me, changing the peace mode for detect, so the counterdetection trigger only fires if you get too far from the ship. Molon's option is not allways possible. The scenario I was trying doesn't give much options to place the enemy submarine. Thanks again __________________ Hay dos tipos de buques: los submarinos... y los blancos. There are two types of ships: the subs... and the targets.

09-13-10, 12:19 PM	#6
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	Two questions.... Is this something that the RA mod has changed? Will the AI ever take any sort of action (prosecute, investigate, link) against one of these contacts before classification? __________________