Aircraft!!??

TorpexXIII · 09-01-10, 11:03 AM

Im sure that this has been brought up before. Please help. Whats with the constant aircraft!!?? Ive got a 'less aircraft' mod but damn! Were US subs in WWII escorted constantly by 10 squadrons of Japanese planes!?

Can anyone shed some light on a drastic reduction in aircraft encounters?

Many thanks in advance,

Chris

Rockin Robbins · 09-01-10, 12:38 PM

Yes, without air protection our subs would have been dead meat when our DDs attacked them.

Actually, any impressions that there are too many aircraft is strictly an effect of time compression. There are not too many aircraft. I am presently in a career early in the war with an S-Boat out of Manila and they Surabaya when the air was lousy with airplanes. I have no radar. I still am using my yo-yo strategy, even with optical lookouts only with perfect success. My batteries are at full charge except when I am engaging shipping, I stay submerged for about 10 minutes during the three or four air attacks per day and I'm happy as can be.

Now, more confidently than ever, I can say that there are not too many aircraft in SH4, whether stock, TMO, RFB or any combination with RSRD. They can be dealt with. They are not a hazard.

By the way, I am using TMO without RSRD, and with a no radar sugar boat, the worst possible configuration for "excess" air attacks.

Time to bone up on your tactics! See the Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks thread for pointers. If you don't have radar I'd keep time compression at or below 1024. I usually am running 512 in high air traffic areas.

tater · 09-01-10, 12:47 PM

If the OP is playing stock, then there may well be a bug he's troubled by.

There are type types of missions, "scripted" and "random."

The difference is how the units are placed on the map. In "scripted," each ship is dragged to the map in the editor, and groups are created of those ships. In "random" groups, a random group is placed, then ship types are added to the group with a % chance of spawning. The chance can be 100%.

So the two groups can be identically formed with the two techniques. The editor, however, doesn't let the designed control the spawn time precisely, which is important if you need things to be in the right place at the right time.

In the stock game, the battles are "scripted" missions. Maybe those building them didn't know you could hand-edit the spawn times for "random" missions down to the minute.

That's great, except for a BUG. The bug is that in scripted missions, airgroups attached to ships appear in the game as soon as the mission is loaded (at the start of a patrol), NOT when the ships actually spawn.

So, if they have a battle mission, and they spawned the ships out to sea, there are some CV airgroups in the middle of no place for a few months. In the case of Midway, this means 3 carriers worth (hard to believe they even got the number of CVs wrong at Midway, but they did).

Rockin Robbins · 09-01-10, 01:28 PM

That's no bug, that's a large obnoxious buzzard!

Still I contend that no number of aircraft in the game are actually a danger to a properly handled submarine.

Don't get spotted--these guys love to call in their little buzzard friends for the party and you're the cake.

Stay surfaced for every second you can--survival depends on combat awareness. You can see aircraft long before you can spot them on sonar (little joke there). Draw that 5 mile diameter danger circle around your sub. If the plane will enter that circle, submerge, hit the timer when you pass 40 feet, submerge to 100' in TMO, hit the surface button at five minutes and get back up on top NOW! Then resume cruise speed as usual. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

Without radar you will be occasionally spotted. This will make planes more frequent until nightfall. Let 'em come. They're harmless.Tomorrow will be a better day.

In any event, stay on the surface for every second you can, charging those batteries. This is doubly important in an S-Boat with its super-slow charge cycle. Hiding may feel safe, but I assure you it is needlessly endangering yourself, your boat and crew.

tater · 09-01-10, 01:31 PM

The scripted CV bug means staying submerged all day in the area. The planes SWARM.

Rockin Robbins · 09-01-10, 01:37 PM

Well, I've never been in the Midway battle area at the right time to see this in the four years I've played. But nowhere have I encountered enough aircraft to want to mod the game to get rid of them. Of course I haven't played much without RFB or TMO installed.

What's the workaround for the bug? Do you script the aircraft separately from the carriers, not as attached to them?

tomoose · 09-01-10, 01:40 PM

I would have to agree with RR. The perception of swarms of aircraft is given by using TC a lot. I'm using TMO and RSRD and don't have any issues with "swarms" of a/c. The number certainly increase when I'm in enemy territory as one would expect but if you are expecting increased traffic then you have to be more stealthy and dive as soon as any contact is made. I'm not sure if the AI of the game is this smart but if you are slow on the draw and an aircraft spots you then this increases the air traffic in your area (i.e. they now know there's a sub in the area and the AI act accordingly). That's my impression but I'm not sure if that's indeed the case.

09-01-10, 11:03 AM	#1
TorpexXIII Electrician's Mate Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 131 Downloads: 197 Uploads: 0	Aircraft!!?? Im sure that this has been brought up before. Please help. Whats with the constant aircraft!!?? Ive got a 'less aircraft' mod but damn! Were US subs in WWII escorted constantly by 10 squadrons of Japanese planes!? Can anyone shed some light on a drastic reduction in aircraft encounters? Many thanks in advance, Chris

09-01-10, 12:38 PM	#2
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Yes, without air protection our subs would have been dead meat when our DDs attacked them. Actually, any impressions that there are too many aircraft is strictly an effect of time compression. There are not too many aircraft. I am presently in a career early in the war with an S-Boat out of Manila and they Surabaya when the air was lousy with airplanes. I have no radar. I still am using my yo-yo strategy, even with optical lookouts only with perfect success. My batteries are at full charge except when I am engaging shipping, I stay submerged for about 10 minutes during the three or four air attacks per day and I'm happy as can be. Now, more confidently than ever, I can say that there are not too many aircraft in SH4, whether stock, TMO, RFB or any combination with RSRD. They can be dealt with. They are not a hazard. By the way, I am using TMO without RSRD, and with a no radar sugar boat, the worst possible configuration for "excess" air attacks. Time to bone up on your tactics! See the Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks thread for pointers. If you don't have radar I'd keep time compression at or below 1024. I usually am running 512 in high air traffic areas. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

09-01-10, 01:28 PM	#4
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	That's no bug, that's a large obnoxious buzzard! Still I contend that no number of aircraft in the game are actually a danger to a properly handled submarine. Don't get spotted--these guys love to call in their little buzzard friends for the party and you're the cake. Stay surfaced for every second you can--survival depends on combat awareness. You can see aircraft long before you can spot them on sonar (little joke there). Draw that 5 mile diameter danger circle around your sub. If the plane will enter that circle, submerge, hit the timer when you pass 40 feet, submerge to 100' in TMO, hit the surface button at five minutes and get back up on top NOW! Then resume cruise speed as usual. Rinse and repeat as necessary. Without radar you will be occasionally spotted. This will make planes more frequent until nightfall. Let 'em come. They're harmless.Tomorrow will be a better day. In any event, stay on the surface for every second you can, charging those batteries. This is doubly important in an S-Boat with its super-slow charge cycle. Hiding may feel safe, but I assure you it is needlessly endangering yourself, your boat and crew. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

09-01-10, 01:37 PM	#6
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Well, I've never been in the Midway battle area at the right time to see this in the four years I've played. But nowhere have I encountered enough aircraft to want to mod the game to get rid of them. Of course I haven't played much without RFB or TMO installed. What's the workaround for the bug? Do you script the aircraft separately from the carriers, not as attached to them? __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

09-01-10, 01:40 PM	#7
tomoose Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 930 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	Aircraft no probs I would have to agree with RR. The perception of swarms of aircraft is given by using TC a lot. I'm using TMO and RSRD and don't have any issues with "swarms" of a/c. The number certainly increase when I'm in enemy territory as one would expect but if you are expecting increased traffic then you have to be more stealthy and dive as soon as any contact is made. I'm not sure if the AI of the game is this smart but if you are slow on the draw and an aircraft spots you then this increases the air traffic in your area (i.e. they now know there's a sub in the area and the AI act accordingly). That's my impression but I'm not sure if that's indeed the case.

09-01-10, 12:47 PM	#3
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	If the OP is playing stock, then there may well be a bug he's troubled by. There are type types of missions, "scripted" and "random." The difference is how the units are placed on the map. In "scripted," each ship is dragged to the map in the editor, and groups are created of those ships. In "random" groups, a random group is placed, then ship types are added to the group with a % chance of spawning. The chance can be 100%. So the two groups can be identically formed with the two techniques. The editor, however, doesn't let the designed control the spawn time precisely, which is important if you need things to be in the right place at the right time. In the stock game, the battles are "scripted" missions. Maybe those building them didn't know you could hand-edit the spawn times for "random" missions down to the minute. That's great, except for a BUG. The bug is that in scripted missions, airgroups attached to ships appear in the game as soon as the mission is loaded (at the start of a patrol), NOT when the ships actually spawn. So, if they have a battle mission, and they spawned the ships out to sea, there are some CV airgroups in the middle of no place for a few months. In the case of Midway, this means 3 carriers worth (hard to believe they even got the number of CVs wrong at Midway, but they did).

09-01-10, 01:31 PM	#5
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The scripted CV bug means staying submerged all day in the area. The planes SWARM.