In A Pickle

gollum65 · 08-05-10, 10:38 AM

Ok guys. I'm a fairly new SH4 captain so bear with me. I've got the latest versions of TMO and RSRDC installed and I'm literally on my first patrol of the war. I set out from Manila and went to the east side of Luzon and completed my first objective. On my way to the 2nd objective I came across what I thought was 1 IJN destroyer. I got into position and fired 2 torps at him, and while it looked like 1 hit through my periscope, I didn't get any confirmation of this from my crew.

But what I thought was 1 destroyer was actually 2 and they've got me pretty much pinned down. I'm only in about 130 feet of water with no thermal layer to hide under. The 2 boats keep circling over me and pinging away, and every once in a while they drop a few depth charges. I've yet to sustain any damage, so I guess I'm doing something right.

My question is how do I get away? If I read other posts on the forum correctly then when they're pinging they're not listening and I should maneuver then, but I can't always tell if both are pinging or just one? Usually it sounds like just 1. I can only do 1 knot if I go to 1/3 power and if I go any faster they seem to be able to zero in on me within seconds. I can't even turn fast enough to try to keep a slim profile towards one boat, much less both. And there may even be a 3rd boat inbound that my sonar seems to hear but I can't see yet. As soon as they stop pinging I stop my boat because I'm assuming they're then listening to see if they can hear me.

I've been at this 2 hours and haven't even made it a mile yet. I've got at least 5 miles to go before I get to any deeper water. I'm afraid to try any accelerated time as I'm sure they'll find and sink me before I even know they've found me.

Am I just stuck trying to sneak to deeper waters and if I make it then I can go deep? Am I doing this stuff wrong and therefore making it harder on myself? If I even make it to deep water will it be any easier to escape?

Thanks in advance.

Major Johnson · 08-05-10, 11:36 AM

Sounds to me like you're doing everything right, but are you in silent running mode?? That's a definite must! As for wihich direction to go, I say, the fastest path to deep waters. As for if they can hear you when their pinging or not, if I understand correctly, when they are pinging, they are listening. I think you want to make whatever manuever you want to make, when they're not pinging. Supposedly when they stop pinging they could be making a depth charge run, as they can't ping and depth charge at the same time. And supposedly TM beefs up the destroyers, so it's tougher to escape them. Good luck.

And oh, you can use a little time compression to speed things along, but I wouldn't go higher than 32x until you know you're moving away from them.

gollum65 · 08-05-10, 11:55 AM

I was running silent but stopped so my crew would reload the tubes. I had fired all 8 fish at the destroyers and felt I needed more if I had any shot at escaping (if I could sink one....).

And I guess I'm unclear then on the question of pinging. Could anyone else verify how it works?

razark · 08-05-10, 12:10 PM

If I understand correctly, when they are pinging, they are not listening. However, they are able to switch back and forth so quickly that you don't notice, and they seem to be pinging and listening at the same time.

Aside from that, you have two or more up there looking for you. One is pinging you, and the other is listening.

Get as deep as you can, and as quiet as you can. Keep the RPMs on the propellers low (either below 100 RPM or 50 RPM, I don't remember). Work your way out to deep water. Pay attention to where the enemy is. When they come over you to drop charges, run. They already know where you are, so you're not giving anything away. Go to flank, change depth, change heading, and drop back to slow speed. Change direction, but always keep heading for deeper water.

sergei · 08-05-10, 12:55 PM

As you have discovered, attacking destroyers in shallow water is a real dicey proposition. Especially in TMO. I probably wouldn't try it myself.

As others have said, keep heading towards deeper water.

And best of luck to you.

Diopos · 08-05-10, 02:31 PM

I wonder were the "when they're pinging they're not listening" argument comes from? A single DD is capable of "pinging" and "listening" at the same time. When there are more DDs around, usually one "pings" and everybody listens.
Your sub is capable of "pinging" and "listening" at the same time, so why not a DD?
And yes shallows and DDs don't make a good combination for subs.

.

WernherVonTrapp · 08-05-10, 03:16 PM

Yeah, I'd say you're in hot water, and only 130' deep too. Why did you waste 8 torps on what you thought was 1 measely DD, worth only a couple of k at best? If it were me, with 5nm to go before deep water, I'd hit flank speed, then cut all engines and coast my way toward the deep. Of course, you'll have to do this a number of times till you're a safe enough distance to travel at 1/3. In 130' of water, in TMO, I wouldn't wait around for a plane to spot me. Keep 'em astern and Good luck.

razark · 08-05-10, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diopos

I wonder were the "when they're pinging they're not listening" argument comes from? A single DD is capable of "pinging" and "listening" at the same time. When there are more DDs around, usually one "pings" and everybody listens.

Not sure where I got this from, it's just something that sticks in my mind. Escorts can use one of two hunting behaviors. Either they are using active sonar and pinging away at you, or they are using passive sonar and only listening for you. Because there are two distinct states, they can do one or the other, but not both. However, they can switch between these two behaviors very quickly, so that it appears they are doing both at the same time.

With more than one escort, one will be running around in active search, while the others slow down or stop so they can listen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diopos

Your sub is capable of "pinging" and "listening" at the same time, so why not a DD?

Because the game code doesn't equal reality.

green_abobo · 08-06-10, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gollum65

I was running silent but stopped so my crew would reload the tubes. I had fired all 8 fish at the destroyers and felt I needed more if I had any shot at escaping (if I could sink one....).

And I guess I'm unclear then on the question of pinging. Could anyone else verify how it works?

as far as i know,in-game, destroyers indeed use both active and passive sonar.

active being the "ping" (similar to a fleet boat's hydrophone active ping ability to determine range and bearing to contact,or depth under keel) which gives away your bearing and depth, after it bounces off you and back to them,so they can set a course for your position, and also know how deep to set the depth charge(s).

IDK if it is a mod specific function, or historically correct, but in-game, in the case of securing from silent run to reload/repair,you run the risk of being "heard" as it is described as being "noisy". especially in shallower water,in relatively calm weather conditions.

i imagine this also has to do has to do with the functionality of the escort's sonar capability from one mod compared to another.

i always try and use the rule; the deeper,choppier,with the least amount of noise possible, the better.

if the weather isn't complying,you must be even more vigilant in choosing whether or not it is safe to secure from silent running.

08-05-10, 10:38 AM	#1
gollum65 Seaman Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 37 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	In A Pickle Ok guys. I'm a fairly new SH4 captain so bear with me. I've got the latest versions of TMO and RSRDC installed and I'm literally on my first patrol of the war. I set out from Manila and went to the east side of Luzon and completed my first objective. On my way to the 2nd objective I came across what I thought was 1 IJN destroyer. I got into position and fired 2 torps at him, and while it looked like 1 hit through my periscope, I didn't get any confirmation of this from my crew. But what I thought was 1 destroyer was actually 2 and they've got me pretty much pinned down. I'm only in about 130 feet of water with no thermal layer to hide under. The 2 boats keep circling over me and pinging away, and every once in a while they drop a few depth charges. I've yet to sustain any damage, so I guess I'm doing something right. My question is how do I get away? If I read other posts on the forum correctly then when they're pinging they're not listening and I should maneuver then, but I can't always tell if both are pinging or just one? Usually it sounds like just 1. I can only do 1 knot if I go to 1/3 power and if I go any faster they seem to be able to zero in on me within seconds. I can't even turn fast enough to try to keep a slim profile towards one boat, much less both. And there may even be a 3rd boat inbound that my sonar seems to hear but I can't see yet. As soon as they stop pinging I stop my boat because I'm assuming they're then listening to see if they can hear me. I've been at this 2 hours and haven't even made it a mile yet. I've got at least 5 miles to go before I get to any deeper water. I'm afraid to try any accelerated time as I'm sure they'll find and sink me before I even know they've found me. Am I just stuck trying to sneak to deeper waters and if I make it then I can go deep? Am I doing this stuff wrong and therefore making it harder on myself? If I even make it to deep water will it be any easier to escape? Thanks in advance.

08-05-10, 11:36 AM	#2
Major Johnson Frogman Join Date: May 2007 Location: Jeresey Shore USA Posts: 288 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Sounds to me like you're doing everything right, but are you in silent running mode?? That's a definite must! As for wihich direction to go, I say, the fastest path to deep waters. As for if they can hear you when their pinging or not, if I understand correctly, when they are pinging, they are listening. I think you want to make whatever manuever you want to make, when they're not pinging. Supposedly when they stop pinging they could be making a depth charge run, as they can't ping and depth charge at the same time. And supposedly TM beefs up the destroyers, so it's tougher to escape them. Good luck. And oh, you can use a little time compression to speed things along, but I wouldn't go higher than 32x until you know you're moving away from them. __________________ MJ! ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 AMD FX8350 8 Core 4.0 Ghz CPU GeForce GTX 560 Ti PCIx Video Card 8 GB Corsair Vengence RAM Rosewill 850W Power Supply

08-05-10, 12:10 PM	#4
razark Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,731 Downloads: 393 Uploads: 12	If I understand correctly, when they are pinging, they are not listening. However, they are able to switch back and forth so quickly that you don't notice, and they seem to be pinging and listening at the same time. Aside from that, you have two or more up there looking for you. One is pinging you, and the other is listening. Get as deep as you can, and as quiet as you can. Keep the RPMs on the propellers low (either below 100 RPM or 50 RPM, I don't remember). Work your way out to deep water. Pay attention to where the enemy is. When they come over you to drop charges, run. They already know where you are, so you're not giving anything away. Go to flank, change depth, change heading, and drop back to slow speed. Change direction, but always keep heading for deeper water. __________________ "Never ask a World War II history buff for a 'final solution' to your problem!"

08-05-10, 02:31 PM	#6
Diopos Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Athens, the original one. Posts: 1,226 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	I wonder were the "when they're pinging they're not listening" argument comes from? A single DD is capable of "pinging" and "listening" at the same time. When there are more DDs around, usually one "pings" and everybody listens. Your sub is capable of "pinging" and "listening" at the same time, so why not a DD? And yes shallows and DDs don't make a good combination for subs. . __________________ - Oh God! They're all over the place! CRASH DIVE!!! - Ehm... we can't honey. We're in the car right now. - What?... er right... Doesn't matter! We'll give it a try anyway!

08-05-10, 03:16 PM	#7
WernherVonTrapp Admiral Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Now, alot farther from NYC. Posts: 2,228 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	Yeah, I'd say you're in hot water, and only 130' deep too. Why did you waste 8 torps on what you thought was 1 measely DD, worth only a couple of k at best? If it were me, with 5nm to go before deep water, I'd hit flank speed, then cut all engines and coast my way toward the deep. Of course, you'll have to do this a number of times till you're a safe enough distance to travel at 1/3. In 130' of water, in TMO, I wouldn't wait around for a plane to spot me. Keep 'em astern and Good luck. __________________ "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." -Miyamoto Musashi ------------------------------------------------------- "What is truth?" -Pontius Pilate

08-05-10, 11:55 AM	#3
gollum65 Seaman Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 37 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I was running silent but stopped so my crew would reload the tubes. I had fired all 8 fish at the destroyers and felt I needed more if I had any shot at escaping (if I could sink one....). And I guess I'm unclear then on the question of pinging. Could anyone else verify how it works?

08-05-10, 12:55 PM	#5
sergei Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 1,788 Downloads: 405 Uploads: 29	As you have discovered, attacking destroyers in shallow water is a real dicey proposition. Especially in TMO. I probably wouldn't try it myself. As others have said, keep heading towards deeper water. And best of luck to you.