Why am I having such a hard time killing subs?

NFunky · 05-10-10, 10:44 PM

Well ok, so I thought I was starting to get pretty good at TMA, understanding the sonar picture, and targeting my torpedoes properly, but I've been having really bad luck recently. It took me a while to figure out what it was and I think I've got it.

I've discovered that it's much harder to hit a sub that's under the layer. Even if my weapon is under the layer as well, sonar ranges are a great deal shorter. This means my solution has to be much more precise than I'm used to during terminal tracking. I'm still not great at tracking subs once they've started evading, so I'm missing a lot because of this. If anyone has any more tips on improving my 'post-evasion' TMA, I need them.

I was also wondering about clearing datum after firing. Any course change will screw up my towed sonar track, so I usually just change speed. However, I've been trying to avoid this limitation by acquiring the enemy sub on spherical once he's speeded up, but I'm having trouble here. It seems like I can't get a narrowband contact for the sphere unless I'm fairly close, but I can get broadband contact at a decent range. However, I can't designate the BB contact because my own damn weapons are in the way. If the target is loud/close enough though, I get a sphere contact, but that leads me to another dilemma. I can either make a datum clearing turn or I can use sphere/towed to triangulate and give me a much faster solution on the evading sub.

Proudly, I can say that I've got the bases pretty well covered up until weapons release, but once the fish are in the water I'm a bit of an incompetent. Help?

TLAM Strike · 05-10-10, 11:41 PM

Try firing from a Lag LOS that way when the target hears your torpedoes coming at him you are already moving away from him.

Molon Labe · 05-11-10, 12:07 AM

You don't need to have the TA all the way out. Shorten it, and you'll find turns aren't as much of a hassle.

Don't forget about the hull/conformal array. It's easier to get a 2nd contact on NB hull than it is BB sphere.

If you have a solid solution at the time of firing, you can anticipate an evasion course somewhat easily once the target goes evasive.

And what TLAM said.

NFunky · 05-11-10, 05:19 PM

I do always try to fire from a lag LOS, but isn't that a bit different from actually clearing datum? I mean, if I fire on a target and I'm going 14 kts in a lag, should I just remain on the same course? Should I change my speed? Should I even bother to clear datum if he doesn't counterfire?

As for the TA, I do generally tend to keep it halfway extended and it still seems to take at least one bearing line before it stabilizes after large turns. Is there a minimum length below which detection is degraded? It seems that it is just as sensitive at half as at full, so would it still be as good at 1/4?

Oh and I did forget about the flank array, but I always thought it was the least sensitive of my sonars. I'll give it a shot!

TLAM Strike · 05-11-10, 05:43 PM

The hull array detects lower freq tonals than the bow array so its able to pick up targets futher away, the downside is its washout speed is lower than the spherical array.

You could try a course change right after firing so you have time to reacquire the target before you're fish go active.

You also might want to consider use of active sonar to locate the target for your torpedoes, if the party is on and the other guy knows where you are there is no point in remaining silent.

NFunky · 05-12-10, 09:54 AM

Well, I've just been playing with the TA at one third and I haven't noticed any decernable loss in sensitivity, but even shorter would be better. Can I just reel it in until I start getting louder flow noise then extend it a bit? How short is too short?

05-10-10, 10:44 PM	#1
NFunky Machinist's Mate Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 127 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Why am I having such a hard time killing subs? Well ok, so I thought I was starting to get pretty good at TMA, understanding the sonar picture, and targeting my torpedoes properly, but I've been having really bad luck recently. It took me a while to figure out what it was and I think I've got it. I've discovered that it's much harder to hit a sub that's under the layer. Even if my weapon is under the layer as well, sonar ranges are a great deal shorter. This means my solution has to be much more precise than I'm used to during terminal tracking. I'm still not great at tracking subs once they've started evading, so I'm missing a lot because of this. If anyone has any more tips on improving my 'post-evasion' TMA, I need them. I was also wondering about clearing datum after firing. Any course change will screw up my towed sonar track, so I usually just change speed. However, I've been trying to avoid this limitation by acquiring the enemy sub on spherical once he's speeded up, but I'm having trouble here. It seems like I can't get a narrowband contact for the sphere unless I'm fairly close, but I can get broadband contact at a decent range. However, I can't designate the BB contact because my own damn weapons are in the way. If the target is loud/close enough though, I get a sphere contact, but that leads me to another dilemma. I can either make a datum clearing turn or I can use sphere/towed to triangulate and give me a much faster solution on the evading sub. Proudly, I can say that I've got the bases pretty well covered up until weapons release, but once the fish are in the water I'm a bit of an incompetent. Help?

05-10-10, 11:41 PM	#2
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Try firing from a Lag LOS that way when the target hears your torpedoes coming at him you are already moving away from him. __________________

05-11-10, 12:07 AM	#3
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	You don't need to have the TA all the way out. Shorten it, and you'll find turns aren't as much of a hassle. Don't forget about the hull/conformal array. It's easier to get a 2nd contact on NB hull than it is BB sphere. If you have a solid solution at the time of firing, you can anticipate an evasion course somewhat easily once the target goes evasive. And what TLAM said. __________________

05-11-10, 05:43 PM	#5
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	The hull array detects lower freq tonals than the bow array so its able to pick up targets futher away, the downside is its washout speed is lower than the spherical array. You could try a course change right after firing so you have time to reacquire the target before you're fish go active. You also might want to consider use of active sonar to locate the target for your torpedoes, if the party is on and the other guy knows where you are there is no point in remaining silent. __________________

05-11-10, 05:19 PM	#4
NFunky Machinist's Mate Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 127 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I do always try to fire from a lag LOS, but isn't that a bit different from actually clearing datum? I mean, if I fire on a target and I'm going 14 kts in a lag, should I just remain on the same course? Should I change my speed? Should I even bother to clear datum if he doesn't counterfire? As for the TA, I do generally tend to keep it halfway extended and it still seems to take at least one bearing line before it stabilizes after large turns. Is there a minimum length below which detection is degraded? It seems that it is just as sensitive at half as at full, so would it still be as good at 1/4? Oh and I did forget about the flank array, but I always thought it was the least sensitive of my sonars. I'll give it a shot!

05-12-10, 09:54 AM	#6
NFunky Machinist's Mate Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 127 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Well, I've just been playing with the TA at one third and I haven't noticed any decernable loss in sensitivity, but even shorter would be better. Can I just reel it in until I start getting louder flow noise then extend it a bit? How short is too short?