Britain formally suing the pope...?!

Skybird · 04-11-10, 04:05 AM

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle7094310.ece

That would be a story, if it becomes true!

Quote:

Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the atheist author, have asked human rights lawyers to produce a case for charging Pope Benedict XVI over his alleged cover-up of sexual abuse in the Catholic church.

The pair believe they can exploit the same legal principle used to arrest Augusto Pinochet, the late Chilean dictator, when he visited Britain in 1998.
(...)
Benedict will be in Britain between September 16 and 19, visiting London, Glasgow and Coventry, where he will beatify Cardinal John Henry Newman, the 19th-century theologian.

Dawkins and Hitchens believe the Pope would be unable to claim diplomatic immunity from arrest because, although his tour is categorised as a state visit, he is not the head of a state recognised by the United Nations.
(...)
Hitchens, author of God Is Not Great, said: “This man is not above or outside the law. The institutionalised concealment of child rape is a crime under any law and demands not private ceremonies of repentance or church-funded payoffs, but justice and punishment.

Me too has argued that the order to hide the rape and torture crimes from the public at all cost, and not to engage the law enforcement authorities, equals a conspiracy to hinder justice and to escape the law, making this institution one of so-called organsied crime since it was not only tolerated to act like this, but systematically ordered even by highest authorities in the hierarchy, and subordinate authorities anyway.

Oberon · 04-11-10, 07:09 AM

It'll never come to pass, you cannot target the Vatican and win, they're too well shielded for that.

Jimbuna · 04-11-10, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

It'll never come to pass, you cannot target the Vatican and win, they're too well shielded for that.

I agree....but readily admit this issue is far from ended and there could well be some interesting developments in the future.

HundertzehnGustav · 04-11-10, 09:20 AM

not now... but divide the churches from the state and holdf them guilty just as much as any human. He aint God, hes just nother human, and all humans are teh zame ^^

STEED · 04-11-10, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

It'll never come to pass, you cannot target the Vatican and win, they're too well shielded for that.

All that wealth there sitting on helps to win court cases.

CaptainHaplo · 04-11-10, 09:33 AM

Two problems:

One - the people wanting to push this have no legal standing to do so. Any suit brought would be civil in nature - not criminal - because the people bringing it are not in law enforcement. Human rights lawyers cannot charge the Pope directly, they can only request that it be done to a governmental agency charged with such duty. A government going along with suing the Vatican ain't happening anytime soon. That means the only actions they can pursue would be civil cases. No one is going to be arrested on a civil case.

While they could claim to represent "society as a whole" in such a civil matter, any court would throw out the lawsuit because those bringing it have no interest in the matter - other than a political one. They were personally not harmed by the situations in question - and as such would be deemed to "lack standing" to make such a case.

Political / anti-religious stunts are not going to solve this problem. Its a crying shame that people would take advantage of the suffering and abuse of others to try and push their own agenda. I don't care for the Catholic church - but if your going to clean it up - this isn't the way. Its grandstanding and little more than a cry for attention personally and for the way the people involved choose to think. Pitiful.

bookworm_020 · 04-12-10, 03:07 AM

As a head of State, wouldn't the pope also have diplomatic immunity? Not to mention that he wasn't in charge when most of the offences took place.

antikristuseke · 04-12-10, 04:47 AM

The catholic church, like any other church, is a pointless entity, the faster it ****s off and dies, the better.

Jimbuna · 04-12-10, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bookworm_020

As a head of State, wouldn't the pope also have diplomatic immunity? Not to mention that he wasn't in charge when most of the offences took place.

The pair believe they can exploit the same legal principle used to arrest Augusto Pinochet, the late Chilean dictator, when he visited Britain in 1998.

Dawkins and Hitchens believe the Pope would be unable to claim diplomatic immunity from arrest because, although his tour is categorised as a state visit, he is not the head of a state recognised by the United Nations.

<Quoted from the article linked in the OP>

04-11-10, 09:20 AM	#4
HundertzehnGustav Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lux, betw. G, B and F Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	not now... but divide the churches from the state and holdf them guilty just as much as any human. He aint God, hes just nother human, and all humans are teh zame ^^ __________________ In conclusion: SH3 is the shizzle, yo. -Frau Kaleun Another negative about using your deck gun is that you are definately DETECTED, which has long term effects on your relationship with aircraft. -snestorm

04-11-10, 09:33 AM	#6
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,405 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	Two problems: One - the people wanting to push this have no legal standing to do so. Any suit brought would be civil in nature - not criminal - because the people bringing it are not in law enforcement. Human rights lawyers cannot charge the Pope directly, they can only request that it be done to a governmental agency charged with such duty. A government going along with suing the Vatican ain't happening anytime soon. That means the only actions they can pursue would be civil cases. No one is going to be arrested on a civil case. While they could claim to represent "society as a whole" in such a civil matter, any court would throw out the lawsuit because those bringing it have no interest in the matter - other than a political one. They were personally not harmed by the situations in question - and as such would be deemed to "lack standing" to make such a case. Political / anti-religious stunts are not going to solve this problem. Its a crying shame that people would take advantage of the suffering and abuse of others to try and push their own agenda. I don't care for the Catholic church - but if your going to clean it up - this isn't the way. Its grandstanding and little more than a cry for attention personally and for the way the people involved choose to think. Pitiful. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

04-12-10, 03:07 AM	#7
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,966 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	As a head of State, wouldn't the pope also have diplomatic immunity? Not to mention that he wasn't in charge when most of the offences took place. __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

04-11-10, 07:09 AM	#2
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	It'll never come to pass, you cannot target the Vatican and win, they're too well shielded for that.

04-12-10, 04:47 AM	#8
antikristuseke Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Estland Posts: 4,330 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	The catholic church, like any other church, is a pointless entity, the faster it ****s off and dies, the better.