Things that bother me about "Iron Coffins"

[Subnuts]

A few months ago, Neal asked me to write a review of Iron Coffins for the next almanac. As I'm not supposed to actually post the actual review on this forum, I thought I'd bring up some of the..."issues"...I have with Iron Coffins. In my view, this book is painfully overrated, factually dishonest, and shouldn't occupy the elevated position it holds in the U-boat "canon." So, here's a quick laundry list:

• It's ridiculously high standing. Iron COffins is often thought of as a crowning masterpiece in the genre of submarine literature, the definitive account of life on a German U-boat, and a 100% factual account. Hasn't anyone ever heard of looking into secondary sources? I can study translated plans of U-570, read through Donitz's war diary, and examine the results of every convoy battle, all without having to fly to Germany and dig through old records.

• The amount of blatant fabrication contained within. Werner has U-557 sinking seven ships on her first patrol, when only one was sunk in reality. He then has her sinking six ships on her third patrol, when again, only one was sunk. He then has U-230 attacking Convoy HX-229/SC-122, sinking seven ships of the 22 in total sunk from the two convoys. However, the boat never got close enough to either convoy to fire a single torpedo or shell at it! Finally, he describes attacking a convoy in January, 1945 near England, observing three distinct torpedo strikes. Official records fail to credit him with sinking or damaging a single ship during his career as a U-boat captain.

• Werner's depiction of the Allied ASW effort. Based on Iron Coffins, Werner survived hundreds of aerial attacks, and several 30-hour long depth charge barrages. He's so lucky, though, that the Allies never used air-dropping homing torpedoes, Hedgehogs, sonobuoys, or hunter-killer groups against him. Considering the Allies has turned anti-submarine warfare into an artform by war's end, I find this hard to believe.

• Werner's depiction of himself. He's a stereotypical "Good German" who happens to be politically neutral, has no opinion of the Nazis, stands up against the Gestapo when his father is arrested, and has only the classiest of affairs with French prost...I mean, ladies. Everything that goes wrong is someone else's fault, even when his boat gets sunk in harbor. He shoots down a plane single-handedly with an ancient machine gun and ends up in the French foreign legion. Seriously?

• The reactions of U-boat veterans to the book has been glossed over. Jurgen Rohwer said that if one were to underline all of the errors in this book in red, it would look like a blood bath. The Association of German Submariners called it a "hack work totally without foundation." Iron Coffins was just as controversial as Das Boot when it came out, but people accept Herbert Werner more readily then they would Lothar-Gunther Buchheim. Why ignore these very real criticisms?

• Werner's overall attitude. He wants us to pause and reflect on how horrible war is while embellishing on his wartime experiences. He writes a grim anti-war story while including exciting fabricated battle scenes to spice up the narrative and make it more palatable. I find this whole attitude condescending at best, and intellectually dishonest at worst.

Okay, you can all hate me now.

[Ducimus]

I admire your fortitude for posting the truth. For it's tantamount to burning a religious scripture in a place of worship in front of the followers. I admit, when i first started reading about U boats, i got totally caught up in the romance of it all.

Later on, i started questioning various things i have read or heard. I found many of the points you have listed, along with a couple other indirect points that are not listed. Though they are not my preference, I still enjoy U boats (I love WW2 diesal boats in general), but nowadays i am much more cautious in discerning fact from myth.

[Westbroek]

I don't hate you Subnuts. Well played.
The truth is a stubborn thing.

[mcarlsonus]

Since I'm almost universally hated anyway, I feel compelled to post I thought Thunder Below was also overrated and more a paean to the inflated ego and overinflated self-worth of Eugene Fluckey, the author and Captain of the USS Barb. The constant self-aggrandizing simply stuck in my craw. I, for one, remain unconvinced the Allies would've lost the Pacific War if not for, "Gene!"

Give me Clear the Bridge!: The War Patrols of the USS Tang by her Captain, Richard O'Kane anyday!

[gimpy117]

i think the reason there is not a lot of backlash is that there simply aren't that many U-boat vets around...

[Nordmann]

Take Her Deep! by I. J. Galantin is a good read, it really captures the long and tedious nature of patrols in the Pacific, and the frequent disappointments of the crew. If anyone has yet to read it, I really would recommend it.

[Westbroek]

Take Her Deep was a great read, though I did get a few raised eyebrows at the title.
Though it's also about fleet boats... everyone should read "Wahoo: The patrols of America's Most Famous Submarine." It's written by Richard O'Kane, the XO of the ship for 5 patrols (Wahoo was sunk on the 7th) who later captained the Tang, which sank from a circle-runner. He survived...it's an amazing story and he's an amazing captain and man. God rest him.

edit: Hey this is my 100th post, yay

[mcarlsonus]

I really do wonder if part of the success of Iron Coffins is due to having the Foreword written by Edward Beach, the author of Run Silent, Run Deep and the first captain of a nuclear boat to circumnavigate the globe in USS Triton, 1960. The guy's a legend and still enjoys god-like status among the US Navy elite.

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by Subnuts

The amount of blatant fabrication contained within. Werner has U-557 sinking seven ships on her first patrol, when only one was sunk in reality. He then has her sinking six ships on her third patrol, when again, only one was sunk. He then has U-230 attacking Convoy HX-229/SC-122, sinking seven ships of the 22 in total sunk from the two convoys. However, the boat never got close enough to either convoy to fire a single torpedo or shell at it! Finally, he describes attacking a convoy in January, 1945 near England, observing three distinct torpedo strikes. Official records fail to credit him with sinking or damaging a single ship during his career as a U-boat captain.

I'm currently reading Clay Blair's "Hitler's U-Boat War: The Hunters, 1939-1942" and I'm constantly amazed at the over inflation(sometimes by a huge amount) of tonnage sunk by the individual commanders and the claims of ships sunk that never were sunk. I realize that the fog of war and human failings are a big part of those excessive claims. I think that, at least to some degree, that may be one of the reasons for Werner's "over claiming" in his book. I'd still bet there was a certain amount of embellishment on Werner's part to make for "a good read".

I think it's been previously agreed in other threads on the subject that the best thing is not to use the book for any reference data.

I don't think I'll ever shelve the book forever and I'd even recommend it to people with the warning that it is closer to fiction than the truth. So many people believe everything they read in a book, even from a fiction book, as the truth.
Very good points though subnuts. I'll look forward to reading your entire review.

[jazman]

Originally Posted by sharkbit

I'm currently reading Clay Blair's "Hitler's U-Boat War: The Hunters, 1939-1942" and I'm constantly amazed at the over inflation(sometimes by a huge amount) of tonnage sunk by the individual commanders and the claims of ships sunk that never were sunk. I realize that the fog of war and human failings are a big part of those excessive claims. I think that, at least to some degree, that may be one of the reasons for Werner's "over claiming" in his book. I'd still bet there was a certain amount of embellishment on Werner's part to make for "a good read".

That overclaiming was called "Schepke Tonnage", since he was the worst of the offenders, and everyone knew it.

[Westbroek]

@Takao
That's such a haunting record. It's not much fun to read that, but I know that the people here at subsim will be interested to read it.
It's an interesting contrast: Being simultaneously repelled by such horrific understanding of the last moments of a life...of appreciating in a visceral way how fleeting life and our experiences on this planet are...and the desire to achieve that very understanding... man, it's near impossible to explain it in words, and I suppose that's why writings such as that need to be preserved.
Thanks to you, Mcarlsonus and Subnuts for piecing together the entirety of that posting... and I know eventually these goosebumps will go away...
Cheers,

[sharkbit]

"It is my opinion that men embarking in submarines must possess the qualities of coolness and nerve, and must be extremely painstaking; they must be brave and daring in their handling of the boat.

"The crew of a submarine should be selected from the bravest, the coolest, or they will be of little use in time of crisis - in such as we are now. My brave men are doing their best.

The whole passage was chilling, but these two lines really struck me. It seems to me that these lines ring true even today.

[GoldenRivet]

Subnuts,

I don't disagree with your talking points.

However, they do not change the fact that i enjoyed reading the book.

If Werner's goal was to give the reader an anti war sentiment, he was successful with at least this reader.

I think that one must be careful how they approach books on the subject matters such as this one.

on the one hand, there are proverbial text books on the subject which contain a great deal of facts and very little fanfare... and the way they read is testament to that; what i mean is, they read like text books.

Homer Hickam's Torpedo Junction comes to mind, well written, not a lot of fluff, just the facts, informative, in depth - but not what i would call a page turner.

on the other hand, there are books like Iron Coffins.

While books of the Iron Coffins variety may not contain a great deal of fact, and may actually contain a lot of bovine scatology... they come across with dramatic flare and exciting tone.

as any writer knows, if you want to sell a book, you have to write the stuff that people will want to read.

somewhere in between those two categories, you have a respectable book which contains a myriad of facts and a great and entertaining story.

the name of this "in between" book is... Steel Boat, Iron Hearts by Hans Goebler.

In this reader's opinion, it contains just the right amount of story and fact to make it the front running U-Boat related book in my tiny and probably insignificant collection.

followed closely by Torpedo Junction... with Iron Coffins bringing up the rear.

but, like i said... Iron Coffins was a fun read.

[msalama]

Okay, you can all hate me now.

Why? Pretty much my verdict too when I first read it...

[flag4]

Originally Posted by Subnuts

A few months ago, Neal asked me to write a review of Iron Coffins for the next almanac. As I'm not supposed to actually post the actual review on this forum, I thought I'd bring up some of the..."issues"...I have with Iron Coffins. In my view, this book is painfully overrated, factually dishonest, and shouldn't occupy the elevated position it holds in the U-boat "canon." So, here's a quick laundry list:

• It's ridiculously high standing. Iron COffins is often thought of as a crowning masterpiece in the genre of submarine literature, the definitive account of life on a German U-boat, and a 100% factual account. Hasn't anyone ever heard of looking into secondary sources? I can study translated plans of U-570, read through Donitz's war diary, and examine the results of every convoy battle, all without having to fly to Germany and dig through old records.

• The amount of blatant fabrication contained within. Werner has U-557 sinking seven ships on her first patrol, when only one was sunk in reality. He then has her sinking six ships on her third patrol, when again, only one was sunk. He then has U-230 attacking Convoy HX-229/SC-122, sinking seven ships of the 22 in total sunk from the two convoys. However, the boat never got close enough to either convoy to fire a single torpedo or shell at it! Finally, he describes attacking a convoy in January, 1945 near England, observing three distinct torpedo strikes. Official records fail to credit him with sinking or damaging a single ship during his career as a U-boat captain.

• Werner's depiction of the Allied ASW effort. Based on Iron Coffins, Werner survived hundreds of aerial attacks, and several 30-hour long depth charge barrages. He's so lucky, though, that the Allies never used air-dropping homing torpedoes, Hedgehogs, sonobuoys, or hunter-killer groups against him. Considering the Allies has turned anti-submarine warfare into an artform by war's end, I find this hard to believe.

• Werner's depiction of himself. He's a stereotypical "Good German" who happens to be politically neutral, has no opinion of the Nazis, stands up against the Gestapo when his father is arrested, and has only the classiest of affairs with French prost...I mean, ladies. Everything that goes wrong is someone else's fault, even when his boat gets sunk in harbor. He shoots down a plane single-handedly with an ancient machine gun and ends up in the French foreign legion. Seriously?

• The reactions of U-boat veterans to the book has been glossed over. Jurgen Rohwer said that if one were to underline all of the errors in this book in red, it would look like a blood bath. The Association of German Submariners called it a "hack work totally without foundation." Iron Coffins was just as controversial as Das Boot when it came out, but people accept Herbert Werner more readily then they would Lothar-Gunther Buchheim. Why ignore these very real criticisms?

• Werner's overall attitude. He wants us to pause and reflect on how horrible war is while embellishing on his wartime experiences. He writes a grim anti-war story while including exciting fabricated battle scenes to spice up the narrative and make it more palatable. I find this whole attitude condescending at best, and intellectually dishonest at worst.

Okay, you can all hate me now.

okay okay - i hate you now!!

(...i loved the book and Das Boot...
...but i think Operation Drumbeat is up there on the top)