Why remove perfect features?

oscar19681 · 03-15-10, 06:58 PM

I noticed a lot of features that worked perfec for sh-3/4 that were removed in sh-5. Ill sum them up.

* Crew managment. The crew managent in sh-5 has no right to call itself crew managmet. Its more like a crew update screen. I mean in sh-3/4 i loved the crew managment and micro managing them to my liking. It worked perfectly in sh-4 why remove it?
* Bearing displayed in binocialars . Also removed. Again why?
* retun to course
* maximum range at given speed and course
* sonar guy follow warship / follow closest target
* Deck gun attack hull/super struckture/waterline
* unman deckgun
* u-boat rolled at periscope depth when in heavy sea,s (allready removed in sh-4)
* Band at port
* depth under keel (there is a fix for this in mods now)
* estimated range given be crew when on the surface.
* conning tower of the VIIB non existent and is now replaced by the VIIC,s conning tower
* Ping range to target with sonar
* weather situation.
And i,m sure there are lots of other thinks i forgot to mention. What i dont understand is that many of these features worked well and removed anyway. Also it might but removing many of these features takes more time then to leave them in in the first place. After all they were in the game in the first place. I mean havent they heard of the phrase dont fix it if it aint broken?

DragonRR1 · 03-15-10, 07:43 PM

I have to say that I really like SH5! It is, for me at least, much better than SH4 "out of the box" (excluding the DRM of course!). It's interesting that some of the missing features are actually present:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164798

The game does need some serious patching and I suspect that, as with so many games these days, it was not finished in time for release so they simply cut features which weren't working properly or poorly implemented. I'm not condoning this, I would much rather they delayed the release or spent more time honing the SH4/SH3 interfaces rather than adding the iffy RPG/Morale features.

jwilliams · 03-15-10, 08:32 PM

* Crew managment. The crew managent in sh-5 has no right to call itself crew managmet. Its more like a crew update screen. I mean in sh-3/4 i loved the crew managment and micro managing them to my liking. It worked perfectly in sh-4 why remove it?

Yes i miss the crew managment. This new system is useless.

* Bearing displayed in binocialars . Also removed. Again why?

Do binocialars have bearing displays in them?
My RL ones dont.
GWX removed them from SH3. so i dont realy mind if there not in.

* retun to course

Yes very frustration having to plot your whole route again if you use the rudder. this needs to be put back in. (there are mods that put this in btw).

* maximum range at given speed and course

Yes i miss being able to calculate how much fuel i will need to return to port. this also needs to be put back in.

* sonar guy follow warship / follow closest target

I never used this feature in SH3 so i dont really miss it. But he needs to be able to tell me bearing and range to nearest warship/merchant.

* Deck gun attack hull/super struckture/waterline

Yes. Also a cease fire option too.

* unman deckgun

I dont have any problems un-manning my guns. maybe it to do with morale. i have the morale mod installed

* u-boat rolled at periscope depth when in heavy sea,s (allready removed in sh-4)

A uboat should roll in heavy seas. SH5 dosnt roll enough IMO.

* Band at port

harbour life. yes this needs to be added back in.

* depth under keel (there is a fix for this in mods now)

OMG. I cant believe they removed this. What use is a uboat with out the ability to ping for Depth Under Keel.

* estimated range given be crew when on the surface.

Estimate range to target? i just use the UZO stadimeter.

* conning tower of the VIIB non existent and is now replaced by the VIIC,s conning tower

My knoledge of uboats is limited so i would never had noticed.

* Ping range to target with sonar

Could uboats do this????

* weather situation.

Yes would be good to know, without having to go and look for yourself.

Sailor Steve · 03-16-10, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwilliams

A uboat should roll in heavy seas. SH5 dosnt roll enough IMO.

He was referring to the fact that submarines that are submerged but near the surface are still affected by the motion of the ocean. In SH3 you would still get some movement as deep as 30 meters in a storm and at periscope depth in any but the calmest weather.

Quote:

* Ping range to target with sonar

Could uboats do this????

The later ones with active sonar could, though it was dangerous if escorts were about. The real question is, did Type VIIs in 1943 have active sonar?

SteamWake · 03-16-10, 10:20 AM

He left out the return to course button

03-29-10, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

He left out the return to course button

yeah needs a button, but if you add one more way point on the end of your course, the uboat will go back to following course

Faamecanic · 03-16-10, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

He was referring to the fact that submarines that are submerged but near the surface are still affected by the motion of the ocean. In SH3 you would still get some movement as deep as 30 meters in a storm and at periscope depth in any but the calmest weather.

The later ones with active sonar could, though it was dangerous if escorts were about. The real question is, did Type VIIs in 1943 have active sonar?

Or for that mater why do that have RADAR??

And why would I be hunting Liberty Cargo Ships as a mission in 1939-40.....

Yet more drivel Ubi released....

capthelm · 03-16-10, 11:25 AM

imo i dont think they where left out , just no time to add them in.

someone pulled the budget plug on them i think.

SabreHawk · 03-16-10, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capthelm

imo i dont think they where left out , just no time to add them in.

someone pulled the budget plug on them i think.

Yes this makes more sense to me than anything, it's a common tale in just about everything.
mfr's and such are just trying to make things too fast period. Deadlines are too unrealistic.
Hurry, hurry hurry. Haste makes waste, a saying that will always hold true. And is more true today than ever.
And I think that the subject in this thread, it from what have experienced so far, and by reading across the forums is the most common thinking amongst us.
That all they had to do for a winning combination was do the graphics as they did, and simply drop in SH3's UI and crew mgmt system with a couple tweaks adn thats it.
But they tried to revamp everything, and got away from what worked right.

longam · 03-29-10, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capthelm

imo i dont think they where left out , just no time to add them in.

someone pulled the budget plug on them i think.

Agree that they ran out of time, you can tell that by what they implemented in the interface, and what is still being developed (turned off) in the code. But I have faith in the Dev team, they are proud of their work and will finish the job as best as they can.

It will be interesting to see some other interface mods when more people get into modding this game.

Flopper · 03-29-10, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwilliams;1317895* Bearing displayed in binocialars . Also removed. Again why?

[COLOR=yellow

Do binocialars have bearing displays in them?[/COLOR]
My RL ones dont.
GWX removed them from SH3. so i dont realy mind if there not in.

No, but if I have a clear enough sky or know any bearing, I pretty much can know which general direction I'm viewing through my RL ones. I found it a bother to not have any clue whether I just panned over 20 degrees or 60, with missing binocular bearings. Maybe a cardinal headings only mod...

Sailor Steve · 03-29-10, 05:24 PM

I love that they're gone with GWX. I always turn to the rough bearing without them, they put them up. Works every time.

Nordmann · 03-29-10, 06:30 PM

Many of the aforementioned features are still in the game, they are just disabled, or currently do not have an assigned key. I'm not sure why they did this, but I can only assume that they were meant to be in, but did not make release for one reason or another.

I'm still scratching my head as to why you skip from a VIIA to a VIIC, not to mention the inaccurate towers. This is something you should get right, if you claim to be making a U-boat simulator; it's not exactly difficult, look it up online or *gasp* pick up a book. Honestly, the devs should get themselves some people in the know, at least they would have the historical aspects nailed down, if nothing else.

Flopper · 03-29-10, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I love that they're gone with GWX. I always turn to the rough bearing without them, they put them up. Works every time.

I always do that too, but I wish I could do a proper scan with them.

Juliano · 03-15-10, 08:42 PM

Oscar, I suggest trying the latest mods released as they improve the game 100% already, but it´s still a long hard road to raise this game to an epic level like SH3.

The modders are doing some GREAT work, some are even starting fidling with the campaign files to add and alter several things, and I bet some are trying to build a more realistic form scratch.

Here, take a look by yourself: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=162013

Happy Hunting =D

03-15-10, 06:58 PM	#1
oscar19681 Admiral Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: netherlands Posts: 2,020 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	Why remove perfect features? I noticed a lot of features that worked perfec for sh-3/4 that were removed in sh-5. Ill sum them up. * Crew managment. The crew managent in sh-5 has no right to call itself crew managmet. Its more like a crew update screen. I mean in sh-3/4 i loved the crew managment and micro managing them to my liking. It worked perfectly in sh-4 why remove it? * Bearing displayed in binocialars . Also removed. Again why? * retun to course * maximum range at given speed and course * sonar guy follow warship / follow closest target * Deck gun attack hull/super struckture/waterline * unman deckgun * u-boat rolled at periscope depth when in heavy sea,s (allready removed in sh-4) * Band at port * depth under keel (there is a fix for this in mods now) * estimated range given be crew when on the surface. * conning tower of the VIIB non existent and is now replaced by the VIIC,s conning tower * Ping range to target with sonar * weather situation. And i,m sure there are lots of other thinks i forgot to mention. What i dont understand is that many of these features worked well and removed anyway. Also it might but removing many of these features takes more time then to leave them in in the first place. After all they were in the game in the first place. I mean havent they heard of the phrase dont fix it if it aint broken? __________________ we live we die but death does not ends it. Jim Morrison 1943-1971

03-15-10, 08:32 PM	#3
jwilliams Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,013 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	* Crew managment. The crew managent in sh-5 has no right to call itself crew managmet. Its more like a crew update screen. I mean in sh-3/4 i loved the crew managment and micro managing them to my liking. It worked perfectly in sh-4 why remove it? Yes i miss the crew managment. This new system is useless. * Bearing displayed in binocialars . Also removed. Again why? Do binocialars have bearing displays in them? My RL ones dont. GWX removed them from SH3. so i dont realy mind if there not in. * retun to course Yes very frustration having to plot your whole route again if you use the rudder. this needs to be put back in. (there are mods that put this in btw). * maximum range at given speed and course Yes i miss being able to calculate how much fuel i will need to return to port. this also needs to be put back in. * sonar guy follow warship / follow closest target I never used this feature in SH3 so i dont really miss it. But he needs to be able to tell me bearing and range to nearest warship/merchant. * Deck gun attack hull/super struckture/waterline Yes. Also a cease fire option too. * unman deckgun I dont have any problems un-manning my guns. maybe it to do with morale. i have the morale mod installed * u-boat rolled at periscope depth when in heavy sea,s (allready removed in sh-4) A uboat should roll in heavy seas. SH5 dosnt roll enough IMO. * Band at port harbour life. yes this needs to be added back in. * depth under keel (there is a fix for this in mods now) OMG. I cant believe they removed this. What use is a uboat with out the ability to ping for Depth Under Keel. * estimated range given be crew when on the surface. Estimate range to target? i just use the UZO stadimeter. * conning tower of the VIIB non existent and is now replaced by the VIIC,s conning tower My knoledge of uboats is limited so i would never had noticed. * Ping range to target with sonar Could uboats do this???? * weather situation. Yes would be good to know, without having to go and look for yourself. __________________ Windows 7, 64bit. Phenom II 965BE (OC 4cores @ 3.8 Ghz). Radeon HD4870 (1gb gddr5). 6gb Ram.

03-16-10, 10:20 AM	#5
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	He left out the return to course button __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

03-16-10, 11:25 AM	#8
capthelm Captain Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 522 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	imo i dont think they where left out , just no time to add them in. someone pulled the budget plug on them i think. __________________ "One torpedo ... one ship" my SH5 lighting mod http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkM5k8SXpWo my SH5 audio mod http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIN5RHeL8B8

03-29-10, 05:24 PM	#12
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I love that they're gone with GWX. I always turn to the rough bearing without them, they put them up. Works every time. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-15-10, 07:43 PM	#2
DragonRR1 Officer Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: UK Posts: 246 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I have to say that I really like SH5! It is, for me at least, much better than SH4 "out of the box" (excluding the DRM of course!). It's interesting that some of the missing features are actually present: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164798 The game does need some serious patching and I suspect that, as with so many games these days, it was not finished in time for release so they simply cut features which weren't working properly or poorly implemented. I'm not condoning this, I would much rather they delayed the release or spent more time honing the SH4/SH3 interfaces rather than adding the iffy RPG/Morale features.

03-29-10, 06:30 PM	#13
Nordmann Commodore Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: England Posts: 628 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Many of the aforementioned features are still in the game, they are just disabled, or currently do not have an assigned key. I'm not sure why they did this, but I can only assume that they were meant to be in, but did not make release for one reason or another. I'm still scratching my head as to why you skip from a VIIA to a VIIC, not to mention the inaccurate towers. This is something you should get right, if you claim to be making a U-boat simulator; it's not exactly difficult, look it up online or gasp pick up a book. Honestly, the devs should get themselves some people in the know, at least they would have the historical aspects nailed down, if nothing else. __________________ "I must confess that my imagination refuses to see any sort of submarine doing anything but suffocating its crew and floundering at sea." - H. G. Wells

03-15-10, 08:42 PM	#15
Juliano Helmsman Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cruising by you with "EXTREME SPEED" Posts: 101 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Oscar, I suggest trying the latest mods released as they improve the game 100% already, but it´s still a long hard road to raise this game to an epic level like SH3. The modders are doing some GREAT work, some are even starting fidling with the campaign files to add and alter several things, and I bet some are trying to build a more realistic form scratch. Here, take a look by yourself: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=162013 Happy Hunting =D