Public statement against DRM (yet not SH5)

martes86 · 03-15-10, 10:42 AM

Hey everybody,

By the title of this thread most of you are already wondering why the hell would we want yet another complaint post out of the hundreds of those already populating the forums. Well, this one is an official complaint from a simulation community like the one I represent, that is, the 24th Flotilla. I don't really know how many communities have officially positioned themselves, but I hope this one serves some purpose.

http://www.24flotilla.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=36407 (both Spanish and English)

Please note that we're still commited in the fight against piracy, and I've recently banned several new members (since I am the global moderator there) just for the very mention of the group that cracked SH5 (despite what Ubisoft is telling us, it's been cracked, and it works), but if even our own Staff members tasked with exploring SH5's tournament capabilities can't play online for several days, then we can't efficiently and credibly defend the game (or make our community work with it), and tell everyone else that they should buy it no matter what. That this supposedly "so-good" DRM system is actually a total fail that has been preventing legal buyers from playing for several days (yet not a problem for pirates), and still counting, and that it only weakens our efforts to actually help Ubi make money by banning those who just download it, no matter the excuse used. Even those that bought it are going for refunds after several days of not being able to play.

That's why we want to, in a civilized manner, ask Ubisoft to retire this painful DRM, and help us in promoting both our passion and their business.

Also, after having had a go at the sim (I bought it the day it came out, right after work), while it has many bugs to be fixed (and mods to be made), I think it has an enormous potential to become the sim of our dreams, and so I'd like to thank the Devs for their efforts (and their will to innovate, to do new stuff), which I'm sure have been beyond the call of duty in lots of times.

Cheers

Alex · 03-15-10, 10:49 AM

Ubi doesn't need anybody to help them, they've been helping themselves in promoting their own business, by implementing DRM in this game.

Though your request for international assistance in gathering the largest number of players to form a proper anti-DRM committee is quite noble, I don't think DRM will ever be disabled in the future.

I hold both Neal and the mods in high regard, so let's say that I'm almost ashamed to say that in here... But I'll certainly go the illegal way to disable DRM.

Dowly · 03-15-10, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martes86

Well, this one is an official complaint from a simulation community like the one I represent...

Sorry, but making something official doesn't mean jack ****. Especially when it comes from someone (and I mean communities in general, not the 24th) that doesn't have the power to change anything or in other words put pressure to a company like Ubi.

As long as Ubi has paying customers from it's bigger selling titles, the subsim community very little to say about how Ubi runs things. We are "expendable".

janh · 03-15-10, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

Sorry, but making something official doesn't mean jack ****. Especially when it comes from someone (and I mean communities in general, not the 24th) that doesn't have the power to change anything or in other words put pressure to a company like Ubi.

As long as Ubi has paying customers from it's bigger selling titles, the subsim community very little to say about how Ubi runs things. We are "expendable".

Unfortunately looking at the numbers, i.e. realizing that SHV is a niche product in a nice of 9% PC market sales that Ubisoft Corporate reported for 2009, I totally agree.

Even worse, the pirates cracking this damn thing and the likely DDOS attacks (disclaimer: unless it was just badly estimated need for OSP server capacity and architecture) will give Ubisoft all the reason now to claim that they released high value products and got screwed by software piracy again. They will not step back from DRM, and I expect even the $10 bin version will have it.

Ubisofts experiments on DRM in the past decade, its new 2010 business strategy paper and the way this company listens to customers is rather indicative of the importance it does not pays to the latter, but the big black $$$ sign it needs to hold up every year for stockholders and investors. The overall picture is just too consistent to expect any change.

Iron Budokan · 03-15-10, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

As long as Ubi has paying customers from it's bigger selling titles, the subsim community very little to say about how Ubi runs things. We are "expendable".

^^This.

rsvette12 · 03-15-10, 01:04 PM

Well said Martes

Rich

thyro · 03-15-10, 01:04 PM

UBI doesn't care about fan clubs otherwise they wouldn't have implemented such hedius DRM software.

I do not subscribe piracy but in this case let pirates win the battle (if they are really doing anything, and if is not UBI incompetence causing the problems!)

Anyway as long time customer of UBI I don't give a f**k if UBI sales go terrible/or if the company gets in trouble. It will be a good thing and would make that company to come down to the real world.

The message must be return faulty games into the shops if you bought it and cannot play when you want. OR DO NOT BUY a troublesome incomplete game such as it is SH5.

janh · 03-15-10, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thyro

The message must be return faulty games into the shops if you bought it and cannot play when you want.

But this message is gone now, thanks to the piracy efforts. Now they can blame it again in the latter, without having to look at themselves for fault. Like they did with SHIV.

Nordmann · 03-15-10, 02:03 PM

We might have been able to do something about it, if people could only have restrained themselves from buying the damned game. But no, for all the complaints, they go like lambs to the slaughter.

Ubi must be having a good laugh at our expense (well, your expense, I didn't buy it), because they know that they can release a half finished product, with ridiculous restrictions, and their loyal fans will go right ahead and buy it regardless.

Bilge_Rat · 03-15-10, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brag

Except to a few (unmentionable) gamers, their OSP infected games are not selling. Over the weekend, they sold one SHv copy through Amazon. The much hullabalooed Assassins Creed 2 is also down the toilet.

where do you get such detailed info?

Gammelpreusse · 03-15-10, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martes86

Hey everybody,

By the title of this thread most of you are already wondering why the hell would we want yet another complaint post out of the hundreds of those already populating the forums. Well, this one is an official complaint from a simulation community like the one I represent, that is, the 24th Flotilla. I don't really know how many communities have officially positioned themselves, but I hope this one serves some purpose.

http://www.24flotilla.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=36407 (both Spanish and English)

Please note that we're still commited in the fight against piracy, and I've recently banned several new members (since I am the global moderator there) just for the very mention of the group that cracked SH5 (despite what Ubisoft is telling us, it's been cracked, and it works), but if even our own Staff members tasked with exploring SH5's tournament capabilities can't play online for several days, then we can't efficiently and credibly defend the game (or make our community work with it), and tell everyone else that they should buy it no matter what. That this supposedly "so-good" DRM system is actually a total fail that has been preventing legal buyers from playing for several days (yet not a problem for pirates), and still counting, and that it only weakens our efforts to actually help Ubi make money by banning those who just download it, no matter the excuse used. Even those that bought it are going for refunds after several days of not being able to play.

That's why we want to, in a civilized manner, ask Ubisoft to retire this painful DRM, and help us in promoting both our passion and their business.

Also, after having had a go at the sim (I bought it the day it came out, right after work), while it has many bugs to be fixed (and mods to be made), I think it has an enormous potential to become the sim of our dreams, and so I'd like to thank the Devs for their efforts (and their will to innovate, to do new stuff), which I'm sure have been beyond the call of duty in lots of times.

Cheers

Good post and my full support. I recon UBI is just a company under immense financial pressure to get the piracy problem under control. I do not see inherit evil there but a certain lack of creativity and way too much stress to topple the problem.

The DRM has to go, that is an absolute given, and UBI has to find ways to make a DRM that is giving something to the players, instead of taking something away. Reward honest customers instead of accepting collateral damage in this obsessive fight against piracy.

That does not take away that SH V is, though buggy as hell, a true pearl waiting to be discovered and worthy of all the support we can deliver.

Piddyx · 03-16-10, 12:58 AM

There was a series of excellent article on 2d Games analysis or piracy from rockpapershotgun.com. They had an interesting reaction to about 80%+ of their PC audience pirating their game

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008...iracy-rate-82/

I’m sure that many will pick at the maths above and argue their reasoning why they think this number might be lower (or even higher), but I’m not sure that’s relevant. Unless there’s a dramatic proof out there that slashes this figure into a quarter, it strikes me as a distraction. If one can’t destroy this number, and therefore the 82% figure is close enough to accurate, given that it might be slightly lower or higher, what then? That’s the interesting discussion. Is this piracy a problem?

2D BOY certainly don’t believe that adding DRM to their game would have made any difference. (I would argue that logic dictates this – something that is always cracked on Day 0/1, and only affects the legitimate customers and not the pirates, is going to do nothing realistic. But clearly very few publishers agree, so there’s still much debate to be had). But have they been robbed of 86% of their sales? Again, the implication from the company is they think perhaps 1 or 2 of every 1000 of those pirated copies could have been a sale. But there’s still tens of thousands of people with a copy without paying for it, far more than those who did pay.

Here’s another question. If piracy figures don’t represent lost sales, what do they represent? Is it an indictment of humanity? Are they free advertising? Could 2D BOY have benefited in any way from them? Or are they causing active harm?

Whatever the significance of the PC’s piracy rates, the results from 2D BOY make one thing very clear: While some of us are paying for our fun, a lot of us are not.

Edit: A rather significant statement from 2D BOY’s Ron Carmel appears below in the comments. It’s helpful to put it up here:

“by the way, just in case it’s not 100% clear, we’re not angry about piracy, we still think that DRM is a waste of time and money, we don’t think that we’re losing sales due to piracy, and we have no intention of trying to fight it.”

They later decided to release the game for whatever people would pay for it, and they got some interesting results.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009...ating-results/

Now, 2D boy is a much smaller company than Ubisoft, so there is more money to go around and also they do not have a huge R&D and art cost.

Piddyx · 03-16-10, 01:15 AM

I feel this other article was relevant. Just so you know what you are up against.

Sorry to get into this again, but as much as I want to ignore it, this one’s significant. Ubisoft have stated that they’re artificially delaying the launch of EndWar on PC because of, you guessed it, piracy....

Michael de Plater said,
“To be honest, if PC wasn’t pirated to hell and back, there’d probably be a PC version coming out the same day as the other two.”
He continues,
“But at the moment, if you release the PC version, essentially what you’re doing is letting people have a free version that they rip off instead of a purchased version. Piracy’s basically killing PC.”

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008...ys-killing-pc/

Stardock Games Brad Wardell responds to this attitude type of attitude at http://draginol.joeuser.com/article/...iracy_PC_Gamin

Recently there has been a lot of talk about how piracy affects PC gaming. And if you listen to game developers, it apparently is a foregone conclusion - if a high quality PC game doesn't sell as many copies as it should, it must be because of piracy.

Now, I don't like piracy at all. It really bugs me when I see my game up on some torrent site just on the principle of the matter. And piracy certainly does cost sales. But arguing that piracy is the primary factor in lower sales of well made games? I don't think so. People who never buy software aren't lost sales.

Is it about business or glory?

Most people who know of Stardock in the gaming world think of it as a tiny indie shop. And we certainly are tiny in terms of game development. But in the desktop enhancement market, Stardock owns that market and it's a market with many millions of users. According to CNET, 6 of the top 10 most popular desktop enhancements are developed by Stardock. Our most popular desktop enhancement, WindowBlinds, has almost 14 million downloads just on Download.com. We have over a million registered users.

If you want to talk about piracy, talk about desktop enhancements. The piracy on that is huge. But the question isn't about piracy. It's about sales.

So here is the deal: When you develop for a market, you don't go by the user base. You go by the potential customer base. That's what most software companies do. They base what they want to create on the size of the market they're developing for. But not PC game developers.

PC game developers seem to focus more on the "cool" factor. What game can they make that will get them glory with the game magazines and gaming websites and hard core gamers? These days, it seems like game developers want to be like rock stars more than businessmen. I've never considered myself a real game developer. I'm a gamer who happens to know how to code and also happens to be reasonably good at business.

So when I make a game, I focus on making games that I think will be the most profitable. As a gamer, I like most games. I love Bioshock. I think the Orange Box is one of the best gaming deals ever. I love Company of Heroes and Oblivion was captivating. My two favorite games of all time are Civilization (I, II, III, and IV) and Total Annihilation. And I won't even get into the hours lost in WoW. Heck, I even like The Sims.

So when it comes time to make a game, I don't have a hard time thinking of a game I'd like to play. The hard part is coming up with a game that we can actually make that will be profitable. And that means looking at the market as a business not about trying to be "cool".

Continued:

Our games sell well for three reasons. First, they're good games which is a pre-requisite. But there's lots of great games that don't sell well.

The other two reasons are:

Our games work on a very wide variety of hardware configurations.
Our games target genres with the largest customer bases per cost to produce for.

We also don't make games targeting the Chinese market

Finally he speaks a Truth that Ubisoft really needs to hear.

The reason why we don't put CD copy protection on our games isn't because we're nice guys. We do it because the people who actually buy games don't like to mess with it. Our customers make the rules, not the pirates. Pirates don't count. We know our customers could pirate our games if they want but choose to support our efforts. So we return the favor - we make the games they want and deliver them how they want it. This is also known as operating like every other industry outside the PC game industry.

609_Avatar · 03-16-10, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piddyx

I feel this other article was relevant. Just so you know what you are up against.

Sorry to get into this again, but as much as I want to ignore it, this one’s significant. Ubisoft have stated that they’re artificially delaying the launch of EndWar on PC because of, you guessed it, piracy....

Michael de Plater said,
“To be honest, if PC wasn’t pirated to hell and back, there’d probably be a PC version coming out the same day as the other two.”
He continues,
“But at the moment, if you release the PC version, essentially what you’re doing is letting people have a free version that they rip off instead of a purchased version. Piracy’s basically killing PC.”

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008...ys-killing-pc/

Stardock Games Brad Wardell responds to this attitude type of attitude at http://draginol.joeuser.com/article/...iracy_PC_Gamin

Recently there has been a lot of talk about how piracy affects PC gaming. And if you listen to game developers, it apparently is a foregone conclusion - if a high quality PC game doesn't sell as many copies as it should, it must be because of piracy.

Now, I don't like piracy at all. It really bugs me when I see my game up on some torrent site just on the principle of the matter. And piracy certainly does cost sales. But arguing that piracy is the primary factor in lower sales of well made games? I don't think so. People who never buy software aren't lost sales.

Is it about business or glory?

Most people who know of Stardock in the gaming world think of it as a tiny indie shop. And we certainly are tiny in terms of game development. But in the desktop enhancement market, Stardock owns that market and it's a market with many millions of users. According to CNET, 6 of the top 10 most popular desktop enhancements are developed by Stardock. Our most popular desktop enhancement, WindowBlinds, has almost 14 million downloads just on Download.com. We have over a million registered users.

If you want to talk about piracy, talk about desktop enhancements. The piracy on that is huge. But the question isn't about piracy. It's about sales.

So here is the deal: When you develop for a market, you don't go by the user base. You go by the potential customer base. That's what most software companies do. They base what they want to create on the size of the market they're developing for. But not PC game developers.

PC game developers seem to focus more on the "cool" factor. What game can they make that will get them glory with the game magazines and gaming websites and hard core gamers? These days, it seems like game developers want to be like rock stars more than businessmen. I've never considered myself a real game developer. I'm a gamer who happens to know how to code and also happens to be reasonably good at business.

So when I make a game, I focus on making games that I think will be the most profitable. As a gamer, I like most games. I love Bioshock. I think the Orange Box is one of the best gaming deals ever. I love Company of Heroes and Oblivion was captivating. My two favorite games of all time are Civilization (I, II, III, and IV) and Total Annihilation. And I won't even get into the hours lost in WoW. Heck, I even like The Sims.

So when it comes time to make a game, I don't have a hard time thinking of a game I'd like to play. The hard part is coming up with a game that we can actually make that will be profitable. And that means looking at the market as a business not about trying to be "cool".

Continued:

Our games sell well for three reasons. First, they're good games which is a pre-requisite. But there's lots of great games that don't sell well.

The other two reasons are:

Our games work on a very wide variety of hardware configurations.
Our games target genres with the largest customer bases per cost to produce for.

We also don't make games targeting the Chinese market

Finally he speaks a Truth that Ubisoft really needs to hear.

The reason why we don't put CD copy protection on our games isn't because we're nice guys. We do it because the people who actually buy games don't like to mess with it. Our customers make the rules, not the pirates. Pirates don't count. We know our customers could pirate our games if they want but choose to support our efforts. So we return the favor - we make the games they want and deliver them how they want it. This is also known as operating like every other industry outside the PC game industry.

Piddyx, great post! (That's why I quoted it in full) Obviously Stardock and Co. have a good perspective on this and that's the main reason, being good business people, that they have survived and are doing relatively well. Too bad Ubi just does not seem to understand these points...

Kron161 · 04-02-10, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordmann

We might have been able to do something about it, if people could only have restrained themselves from buying the damned game. But no, for all the complaints, they go like lambs to the slaughter.

Ubi must be having a good laugh at our expense (well, your expense, I didn't buy it), because they know that they can release a half finished product, with ridiculous restrictions, and their loyal fans will go right ahead and buy it regardless.

I was here with Silent Hunter 2... and oh boy! that really was a mess. The community had to literally pay out of their pockets to have the game more or less fixed, because out of the box in vanilla state it would not work. and Ubi did NEVER apologize, they took our money and promised they would keep the saga alive. They had sold a significant amount of SH2, so they decided to revive a niche saga that is a far cry away from blockbuster sales. This brought us SH3. A game with many shortcomings that the modding comunity has honed to a more than acceptable state. Followed by SH4 and its sequel... and now what? DRM!

A friend of mine purchased the game and on my request did me a favour: copied the license terms and sent them to me by mail.

Have you guys, read the license attached to the game??? i do really mean read in detail, including the small letters... and if necessary, check it with a lawyer.

Read point 2. ownership rights...

The purchaser does never adquire the game. The purchaser adquires the right to use a game that remains propierty of Ubisoft. and this is the beginning of the rip off.

If I buy a car, I own the car. If I buy a book, its content protected by copyrights and all, I own the book. The same with a CD movie... but in this case, you don't own the game.

now read down point 6. warranty limits

By accepting the license, the purchaser asumes any risk due to possible lose of data, errors, malfunctioning, etc...

so you don't have the right to complain for lost accounts, errors, bugs, lost savegames, etc...

This was something else and this issues made my decission. I did not purchase it. I do prefer to play SH3 with GWX mods rather than lining Ubi's pockets with a rip off. Those big corporations do not react to complains. (in fact, as per the license, you are not even entitled to complain for a broken game or bad DRM fuctioning) Big game corporations react to lose of sales. That is the big thing.

The day that the gamer community learn that truth and assume that buying a bad game or a game with something we don't like means that we have fulfilled the corporation's business aims by simply satisfying our curiosity to see the product installed in our computers, that day we will start to change the gaming industry.

Unlike car sellers who must provide a vehicle with reliable functioning standards, software industry is the only industry who sell products unfinished or unreliable and afterwards, users and communities expect patches to get the issues fixed, and the industry is allowed to do as they whish... fix issues or not....

I've had SH5 in my hands at least 3 times in 3 different ocassions at a shopping mall and all 3 times was tempted to take it home... but then I remembered the SH5 trailer.

"after all those years supporting the saga, the community, of contributing from my own pocket to fix SH2, installing enless mods, playing as I wanted when I wanted, not having to depend on internet... was I going to give in? was it all? HELL NO! "

My ONLY power as a consumer faced to a behemoth like UBI is to put my money somewhere else.

I'll wait until Ubi steps back out and fixes DRM out of SH5 or until a cracked copy falls on my lap. Whatever comes in first. You can bet which one is more likely to happen.

03-15-10, 10:42 AM	#1
martes86 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The Colourful Seville - Spain Posts: 971 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Public statement against DRM (yet not SH5) Hey everybody, By the title of this thread most of you are already wondering why the hell would we want yet another complaint post out of the hundreds of those already populating the forums. Well, this one is an official complaint from a simulation community like the one I represent, that is, the 24th Flotilla. I don't really know how many communities have officially positioned themselves, but I hope this one serves some purpose. http://www.24flotilla.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=36407 (both Spanish and English) Please note that we're still commited in the fight against piracy, and I've recently banned several new members (since I am the global moderator there) just for the very mention of the group that cracked SH5 (despite what Ubisoft is telling us, it's been cracked, and it works), but if even our own Staff members tasked with exploring SH5's tournament capabilities can't play online for several days, then we can't efficiently and credibly defend the game (or make our community work with it), and tell everyone else that they should buy it no matter what. That this supposedly "so-good" DRM system is actually a total fail that has been preventing legal buyers from playing for several days (yet not a problem for pirates), and still counting, and that it only weakens our efforts to actually help Ubi make money by banning those who just download it, no matter the excuse used. Even those that bought it are going for refunds after several days of not being able to play. That's why we want to, in a civilized manner, ask Ubisoft to retire this painful DRM, and help us in promoting both our passion and their business. Also, after having had a go at the sim (I bought it the day it came out, right after work), while it has many bugs to be fixed (and mods to be made), I think it has an enormous potential to become the sim of our dreams, and so I'd like to thank the Devs for their efforts (and their will to innovate, to do new stuff), which I'm sure have been beyond the call of duty in lots of times. Cheers

03-15-10, 10:49 AM	#2
Alex Dominant Wolf Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,143 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Ubi doesn't need anybody to help them, they've been helping themselves in promoting their own business, by implementing DRM in this game. Though your request for international assistance in gathering the largest number of players to form a proper anti-DRM committee is quite noble, I don't think DRM will ever be disabled in the future. I hold both Neal and the mods in high regard, so let's say that I'm almost ashamed to say that in here... But I'll certainly go the illegal way to disable DRM. __________________ Last edited by Alex; 03-15-10 at 12:04 PM.

03-15-10, 01:04 PM	#7
thyro Commander Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: on a rock surrounded by water, that people call it UK Posts: 473 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	UBI doesn't care about fan clubs otherwise they wouldn't have implemented such hedius DRM software. I do not subscribe piracy but in this case let pirates win the battle (if they are really doing anything, and if is not UBI incompetence causing the problems!) Anyway as long time customer of UBI I don't give a f**k if UBI sales go terrible/or if the company gets in trouble. It will be a good thing and would make that company to come down to the real world. The message must be return faulty games into the shops if you bought it and cannot play when you want. OR DO NOT BUY a troublesome incomplete game such as it is SH5. __________________ "The good news is that you’re never, ever more than 6 miles from land. The bad news is, the land is straight down!"

03-15-10, 02:03 PM	#9
Nordmann Commodore Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: England Posts: 628 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	We might have been able to do something about it, if people could only have restrained themselves from buying the damned game. But no, for all the complaints, they go like lambs to the slaughter. Ubi must be having a good laugh at our expense (well, your expense, I didn't buy it), because they know that they can release a half finished product, with ridiculous restrictions, and their loyal fans will go right ahead and buy it regardless. __________________ "I must confess that my imagination refuses to see any sort of submarine doing anything but suffocating its crew and floundering at sea." - H. G. Wells

03-16-10, 12:58 AM	#12
Piddyx Watch Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 18 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	There was a series of excellent article on 2d Games analysis or piracy from rockpapershotgun.com. They had an interesting reaction to about 80%+ of their PC audience pirating their game http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008...iracy-rate-82/ I’m sure that many will pick at the maths above and argue their reasoning why they think this number might be lower (or even higher), but I’m not sure that’s relevant. Unless there’s a dramatic proof out there that slashes this figure into a quarter, it strikes me as a distraction. If one can’t destroy this number, and therefore the 82% figure is close enough to accurate, given that it might be slightly lower or higher, what then? That’s the interesting discussion. Is this piracy a problem? 2D BOY certainly don’t believe that adding DRM to their game would have made any difference. (I would argue that logic dictates this – something that is always cracked on Day 0/1, and only affects the legitimate customers and not the pirates, is going to do nothing realistic. But clearly very few publishers agree, so there’s still much debate to be had). But have they been robbed of 86% of their sales? Again, the implication from the company is they think perhaps 1 or 2 of every 1000 of those pirated copies could have been a sale. But there’s still tens of thousands of people with a copy without paying for it, far more than those who did pay. Here’s another question. If piracy figures don’t represent lost sales, what do they represent? Is it an indictment of humanity? Are they free advertising? Could 2D BOY have benefited in any way from them? Or are they causing active harm? Whatever the significance of the PC’s piracy rates, the results from 2D BOY make one thing very clear: While some of us are paying for our fun, a lot of us are not. Edit: A rather significant statement from 2D BOY’s Ron Carmel appears below in the comments. It’s helpful to put it up here: “by the way, just in case it’s not 100% clear, we’re not angry about piracy, we still think that DRM is a waste of time and money, we don’t think that we’re losing sales due to piracy, and we have no intention of trying to fight it.” They later decided to release the game for whatever people would pay for it, and they got some interesting results. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009...ating-results/ Now, 2D boy is a much smaller company than Ubisoft, so there is more money to go around and also they do not have a huge R&D and art cost.

03-15-10, 01:04 PM	#6
rsvette12 Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 263 Downloads: 132 Uploads: 0	Well said Martes Rich

03-16-10, 01:15 AM	#13
Piddyx Watch Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 18 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Ubisoft's quotes on piracy I feel this other article was relevant. Just so you know what you are up against. Sorry to get into this again, but as much as I want to ignore it, this one’s significant. Ubisoft have stated that they’re artificially delaying the launch of EndWar on PC because of, you guessed it, piracy.... Michael de Plater said, “To be honest, if PC wasn’t pirated to hell and back, there’d probably be a PC version coming out the same day as the other two.” He continues, “But at the moment, if you release the PC version, essentially what you’re doing is letting people have a free version that they rip off instead of a purchased version. Piracy’s basically killing PC.” http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008...ys-killing-pc/ Stardock Games Brad Wardell responds to this attitude type of attitude at http://draginol.joeuser.com/article/...iracy_PC_Gamin Recently there has been a lot of talk about how piracy affects PC gaming. And if you listen to game developers, it apparently is a foregone conclusion - if a high quality PC game doesn't sell as many copies as it should, it must be because of piracy. Now, I don't like piracy at all. It really bugs me when I see my game up on some torrent site just on the principle of the matter. And piracy certainly does cost sales. But arguing that piracy is the primary factor in lower sales of well made games? I don't think so. People who never buy software aren't lost sales. Is it about business or glory? Most people who know of Stardock in the gaming world think of it as a tiny indie shop. And we certainly are tiny in terms of game development. But in the desktop enhancement market, Stardock owns that market and it's a market with many millions of users. According to CNET, 6 of the top 10 most popular desktop enhancements are developed by Stardock. Our most popular desktop enhancement, WindowBlinds, has almost 14 million downloads just on Download.com. We have over a million registered users. If you want to talk about piracy, talk about desktop enhancements. The piracy on that is huge. But the question isn't about piracy. It's about sales. So here is the deal: When you develop for a market, you don't go by the user base. You go by the potential customer base. That's what most software companies do. They base what they want to create on the size of the market they're developing for. But not PC game developers. PC game developers seem to focus more on the "cool" factor. What game can they make that will get them glory with the game magazines and gaming websites and hard core gamers? These days, it seems like game developers want to be like rock stars more than businessmen. I've never considered myself a real game developer. I'm a gamer who happens to know how to code and also happens to be reasonably good at business. So when I make a game, I focus on making games that I think will be the most profitable. As a gamer, I like most games. I love Bioshock. I think the Orange Box is one of the best gaming deals ever. I love Company of Heroes and Oblivion was captivating. My two favorite games of all time are Civilization (I, II, III, and IV) and Total Annihilation. And I won't even get into the hours lost in WoW. Heck, I even like The Sims. So when it comes time to make a game, I don't have a hard time thinking of a game I'd like to play. The hard part is coming up with a game that we can actually make that will be profitable. And that means looking at the market as a business not about trying to be "cool". Continued: Our games sell well for three reasons. First, they're good games which is a pre-requisite. But there's lots of great games that don't sell well. The other two reasons are: Our games work on a very wide variety of hardware configurations. Our games target genres with the largest customer bases per cost to produce for. We also don't make games targeting the Chinese market Finally he speaks a Truth that Ubisoft really needs to hear. The reason why we don't put CD copy protection on our games isn't because we're nice guys. We do it because the people who actually buy games don't like to mess with it. Our customers make the rules, not the pirates. Pirates don't count. We know our customers could pirate our games if they want but choose to support our efforts. So we return the favor - we make the games they want and deliver them how they want it. This is also known as operating like every other industry outside the PC game industry.