Why manual targeting???

[Saint19]

Hi all,

Of course being new to sub sims I've got lots to learn. I've been doing the tutorials. The "Torpedos" tutorial is fun. I've been trying to learn by using manual targeting as its described in the manual. You know...

1. Target Recognition
2. Range using the Stadiometer..
3. Angle on Bow - which I kinda understand
4. Speed using the chronometer.

However, I kinda wonder exactly why? I mean I want to learn because I find it very interesting. But in the grand scheme of things I'm not sure why I need to learn it. I've seen many posts with folks having problems with manual targeting. I'm not sure if I'm getting it because I can hit and sink ships. But I also miss quite a bit too.

Yet I see many posts and tutorials using the compass, the protractor, marking on the map....you see where I'm going. Am I not really doing "Manual" if I follow the way its written in the book? Afterall I have manual targeting selected. But in the tutorials all the torps are "straight away"...so why not just maneuver until I get 90 degrees off of the targets heading and wait to fire. I'm not sure why all the "calculations"?

I would love to understand so I can get the most out of the sim and learn things i never knew about before. I feel a since of achievement by learning. But if I was an actual sub captain, would I be doing ALL of those calculations? What is my crew for? I'm not sure I'm explaining myself very well....

1. Is the method I'm using from the book actually manual targeting?
2. ...or is all that "calculating" more about what manual targeting is even though it doesn't seem to be required for what the book is calling manual targeting?
3. Why would I use either if I have a crew?

Thanx for your help.

Saint19

[FIREWALL]

Just pretend you have a dumb crew and enjoy another way of playing.

[maillemaker]

Hi Saint19:

The reason why people like manual targeting is because it is more realistic than just pointing your periscope at the target and having the range, speed, and AoB automatically figured out for you.

There's nothing wrong with playing with auto-TDC - I have done it for years and just a week or so ago switched to manual-TDC with 100% realism.

I think manual targeting is sometimes hyped up to be harder than it is. That is how I felt before they described the "fixed wire" method to me here on the forum.

First of all, as I was advised, I advise against using the built-in notepad method for computing targeting information. The stadiometer works, after a fashion, but in reality range is not terribly important for 90-degree attacks.

Here is my summary of the "Fixed Wire" method of targeting. It is guaranteed to work.

1) Turn your sub so that it is headed just in front of the target ship. If you point your periscope in front of the target ship by, say, 10 degrees, and press "=", your sub will turn its heading to that bearing.

2) When your sub stops turning, your 000 bearing, through the scope (or UZO) should be in front of the target ship. When the target ship's nose touches your vertical crosshair, start the stopwatch by clicking on it.

3) When the target ship's tail crosses the vertical crosshair, stop the stopwatch by clicking on it.

4) Turn your sub to bring it onto a course 90 degrees to the target ship's course.

5) Pull up the identification manual, and identify the ship. This will give you the ship's length in meters.

6) Calculate the target's speed using this formula:

(1.94 * ship's length in meters) / time in seconds

7) Go to your TDC. Turn on manual data entry. Set your Angle on the Bow (AoB) to 90 degrees starboard or port, depending on whether you are on the target ship's starboard side or port side. Dial in the target ship's speed (from formula above). Turn off manual data entry.

8) Go back to your periscope or UZO. Turn your periscope until the gyroangle reads 000.

9) Go back to the TDC. Turn on manual data entry again, and tweak your AoB back to 90 degrees. Turn off manual data entry again.

10) Go back to your scope and set your scope to bearing 000. Open your torpedo outer door (Q key). When the target ship crosses your vertical crosshair, fire your torpedo(s). The torpedo should strike where the crosshair was on the ship when you fired the torpedo.

Note that this technique works for pointing your stern at a target also, as for firing stern torpedoes.

The next thing I want to learn is how to set up more complicated attacks. For example, if you don't have time to come to 90-degree AoB.

Steve

[BillCar]

I agree with maillemaker, manual targeting is made out to be way more difficult than it is. Ditch the notepad (using Hitman's GUI or Hitman's optics mod is great, as it removes it completely) and go au naturel. It's way easier than you'd think.

What I do is use the fixed-line method for speed, and eyeball the AOB. Bob's your uncle.

[Saint19]

But I use GWX. Will that work with the other add-ons?....err woops I see you have it all on your sig. So I guess that answers my question.

[Dissaray]

Originally Posted by Saint19

But I use GWX. Will that work with the other add-ons?....err woops I see you have it all on your sig. So I guess that answers my question.

Markman's and OLC's guis will both work with GWX and so will Hitman's optics. As a mater of fact I belive they were designed for use with GWX spacificaly.

As for your question about why you shouldn't just cruse out in front o' your target turn to 90deg of their course and wait until they are in the right spot for a strait runner shot: There is no reason you shouldn't do this. In my experiance this is the simplest way to do it and as far as I know this is a historicaly accurate method. Learning how to generate an acurate AOB and speed data is still a good idea beacouse you won't always be able to get this prime position for a number of reasons.

[Flopper]

Originally Posted by Saint19

1. Target Recognition
2. Range using the Stadiometer..
3. Angle on Bow - which I kinda understand
4. Speed using the chronometer.


However, I kinda wonder exactly why?

By all means, if you can position yourself at 90 degrees to the target's course, and are waiting for him to get at correct firing bearing, great. Fire away, and watch for the fireworks display. That's usually my first choice.

But you may find yourself in a situation where it's not working out as you had planned, or you have more than one target. So if you've already determined a speed, you can quickly input a range and accurate aob (hurry up and fire, already) and I have to admit, it's pretty rewarding to see those calculations pay off.

I like to get the speed and course first. The very last thing I do is get the range and aob (hurry up and fire, already)

Originally Posted by Saint19

1. Is the method I'm using from the book actually manual targeting?
2. ...or is all that "calculating" more about what manual targeting is even though it doesn't seem to be required for what the book is calling manual targeting?
3. Why would I use either if I have a crew?

Thanx for your help.

Saint19

1. I call it manual targeting if you are performing the data input yourself, rather than having the solution calculated for you.

2. No.

3. For the challenge and reward. Once you've learned to drive and position the boat, it seems like it would be anticlimactic to continue with "I've already found the target in the scope and hit L. Thanks for the solution, boys! Fire!"

My two cents!

[Brer Rabbit]

The decision to use or not to use manual targeting is all a matter of personal choice. It depends upon your level of enjoyment to the various options of the game. IRL kaluens missed more than they hit and even the vaunted US subs took two torpedoes for every ship sunk. That includes junks, fishing boats and garbage scows.

For some the challenge is in the intercept, and the eye candy, taking advantage of the great graphics of their computer and the game. For others it is the problem solving and various techniques involved in sinking a ship.

I have always used manual targeting -- though I have at times used the "gods eye" view. I enjoy the process of detecting, plotting, and tracking the quarry, conducting a successful intercept to a firing position, determining all the available factors in finding a firing solution, and enjoying the satisfying feeling when you torpedo hits where you aimed it.

I still miss more that I hit--but I am getting better.

Keep up the battle

Brer Rabbit

[vergol]

Why use manual targeting...

What else is there to do?

You already spend the vast majority of your time just staring at the navigation chart while running your sub at high TC. And if afterward you just 'point and click' a few times, then it's not much of a game, and hardly satisfying.

Think of manual targeting as a set of challenging puzzles. No two have the same solution. And if you get it right, you get a prize -- an explosively wonderful prize.

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by vergol

You already spend the vast majority of your time just staring at the navigation chart while running your sub at high TC. And if afterward you just 'point and click' a few times, then it's not much of a game, and hardly satisfying.

Like people have said above: It's the challenge.
Like getting bored with stock and then moving on to a super-mod, you may get bored eventually with auto targeting and try manual as a challenge.
The next challenge is to probably play with map contacts off. I'm not there yet though and probably never will be. As has been stated elsewhere, the choices are too extreme.

Map contacts on-too easy and unrealistic; God's eye view, GPS, etc.
Map contacts off-too hard and unrealistic; you as the captain are doing everything, including marking up a chart.(From what I've seen in that other forum, SH5 may be on a little better track when it comes to this.)

I think the assisted plotting mod helps this, but I haven't tried it out though.

I'd bet that once you do make the leap to manual, you'll never go back to auto.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by sharkbit

I think the assisted plotting mod helps this, but I haven't tried it out though.

The Assisted Plotting mod removes all local contacts - ships you can see yourself - from the map. If you move the cursor around you discover that there are dotted circles everywhere, and it you click on them they say "Unknown". Once you identify them and plug in the information it will appear next to that circle, but it will still be the only one on the map. It also takes away the renown hit for having 'Map Contact Updates' on.

Here is GWX's version of Kiel harbor, with a bunch of ships in sight.



It's one of my favorites.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1328

[Flopper]

Originally Posted by sharkbit

The next challenge is to probably play with map contacts off. I'm not there yet though and probably never will be. As has been stated elsewhere, the choices are too extreme.

Bah, turn those map contacts off right now, LOL. It's not that bad. If on the surface, ask the watch (if it's the nearest one you want). If submerged, get a range and bearing, and put an X there!