I'm sad I bought SHIV

[ERPP8]

I got it for Christmas and I had fun.
But after a few weeks I noticed the following things:

1. The campaigns suck
1.1 You get the same mission over and over
1.2 All merchants are armed
1.3 I know RSRDC fixes that but other things stopped it from making a difference

2. I got really bad mod soup
2.1 The Ohio SSBN changed it so the only available torps are the MK-48(great but inaccurate) and the anti ship missile(which sucked)

3. The U-Boat mission expansion sucked
3.1 You always end up patroling an area for ever
3.2 Ops Monsoon fixed that but the planes could see you when your 500 ft down

4. There's no interior except the conning tower, command room and bridge


All this made it painful to play

[capthelm]

sounds to me your wasting your money buying sub simulation games.

[Gilbou]

I got both SH3 and SH4.

I play german side on both. SH4 has some added things like, doing circles in map is more precise, better graphics, better ocean floor, and so on.

On SH3 I use SH3 + GWX

On SH4 I am trying :

RSRDC + Op Monsun + Omegu

What mods have you combined and tried with SH4 ?

If you like to play Uboats, SH3 with GWX would perhaps be a better experience for you.

[ETR3(SS)]

1. The campaigns suck
1.1 You get the same mission over and over
1.2 All merchants are armed
1.3 I know RSRDC fixes that but other things stopped it from making a difference

Stock out of the box, yep the game isn't that great.That's what all the mods are for. And to think, the game was worse when it first came out!

2. I got really bad mod soup

Can't blame that one on the game.

2.1 The Ohio SSBN changed it so the only available torps are the MK-48(great but inaccurate) and the anti ship missile(which sucked)

If I recall correctly it only did that for the Ohio. Sure the Mk48 and TASM replaced a couple of torpedoes, but it still left you at least three to choose from for other boats.

3. The U-Boat mission expansion sucked
3.1 You always end up patroling an area for ever
3.2 Ops Monsoon fixed that but the planes could see you when your 500 ft down

Can't speak much to that. If I wanted to play U boats, I played SH3, not SH4+U boat missions.

4. There's no interior except the conning tower, command room and bridge

I have the feeling that this opinion is brought forward by SH5. That's a part of progressing the series.

[d@rk51d3]

If you have 1.5 Give OM, and OMEGU, a shot.

I also use a couple of sound mods too.........Poul's and EAX. While it does mix some US and German, it's still fun to use.



..........I'm slowly weaning off of SH3 with these.

[ERPP8]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Stock out of the box, yep the game isn't that great.That's what all the mods are for. And to think, the game was worse when it first came out!

Can't blame that one on the game.

If I recall correctly it only did that for the Ohio. Sure the Mk48 and TASM replaced a couple of torpedoes, but it still left you at least three to choose from for other boats.

Can't speak much to that. If I wanted to play U boats, I played SH3, not SH4+U boat missions.

I have the feeling that this opinion is brought forward by SH5. That's a part of progressing the series.

It's not meant to be "Why SHIV sucks" it's why I don't like SHIV

[AVGWarhawk]

Uninstall it and reintall fresh. Just go for the German things Lurker has created. It will prevent mod soup. I have uninstalled and reinstalled numerous times when my game acts funny.

[SloppyMk27]

You may not agree with me, but my opinion is, SHIV is probably the best sub simulator out there. It's the happy medium between SHIII and SHV. SHIII had grainy graphics, much more functionality and they seemed to pay closer attention to historical details. In SHIV the graphics got better, I can't say much for the campaigns (go patrol this area, sink ships and come home. and repeat). Some functionality was gained while some functionality was lost. I'll agree the U-Boat Missions Expansion for SHIV was a band-aid for the game to add U-Boats to it. Then we have SHV. You got the interior you asked for, and they took away everything else. My hope for SHV solely rests with the modders here in Subsim. Some modders are working on some fantastic mods for this train wreck. There are a lot of mods out for SH4, and I believe if you go through some of the modding tutorials you may be able to make SH4 how you want it to be. SH4 from my experiences seems to be the most flexible for modding. The file structure is better laid out than SHIII and you can use S3d instead of being forced to use SHV's "Goblin Editor" which I believe is also a train wreck for modding SHV.
Anyway I hope this sheds some positive light on SHIV. Knowing and learning how to fix and change the game makes things better, as does alcohol

[Armistead]

You get out of it what you're willing to learn to put in it...and yes it takes a combo of right mods for each.

I just ran into one large convoy of 40 ships and as I escaped it here comes another...almost did me in...Went for a quick refit at Guam and sat in the Sibuyan Sea for battle of Leyte and watched 100 US planes attack Kurita's Center Force...I'm tracking ahead waiting until damage is done and I'll go in for some easier kills. Sure hope they get lots of bombs in the Yamato.

Here's a couple recent battles.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...5/m/7951006058
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...5/m/5031017848

[tater]

Originally Posted by ERPP8

I got it for Christmas and I had fun.
But after a few weeks I noticed the following things:

1. The campaigns suck
1.1 You get the same mission over and over
1.2 All merchants are armed
1.3 I know RSRDC fixes that but other things stopped it from making a difference

Most jap merchants WERE armed. Around 2/3 were commandeered before the start of the war by either the IJN or IJA. Many if not most of the remaining ships were later armed.

Believe it or not, none of the available SH4 merchies, even modded has nearly the armament of many ships uses even in December, 1941. This actually surprised me, but many had 4x, even 6x what we see on SH4 merchies.

No kidding.

2. I got really bad mod soup

That's your own fault, not SH4's.

2.1 The Ohio SSBN changed it so the only available torps are the MK-48(great but inaccurate) and the anti ship missile(which sucked)

LOL. Just LOL.

3. The U-Boat mission expansion sucked
3.1 You always end up patroling an area for ever
3.2 Ops Monsoon fixed that but the planes could see you when your 500 ft down

You mention the fix, but jeez, you can change the aircraft sensor thing with less effort than typing the OP.

4. There's no interior except the conning tower, command room and bridge

And more interior is useful how, exactly? Lesse, as skipper you need a rack, someplace to eat—wardroom, and an eating simulator? Least that is something the captain would DO inside. How about taking a dump? Skipper does that. Do anything in the engine room? Not so much as eating and using the head. Interiors are a waste of time.

All this made it painful to play

Glad yer out the cash with that attitude. You can goose-step around a u-boat interior with SH5 though (that improves crew fanaticism I understand, which makes the torpedoes magically faster and more powerful!)

[Bothersome]

Originally Posted by tater

Believe it or not, none of the available SH4 merchies, even modded has nearly the armament of many ships uses even in December, 1941. This actually surprised me, but many had 4x, even 6x what we see on SH4 merchies.

No kidding.

I'm not real sure what you mean by "armament" in your statement above. Do you mean offensive power or defensive power?

It was my understanding that merchant ships were built to move cargo and not built for surviving battles at sea. If it was ship worthy enough to survive high waves and weather that was expected, it was built to those specifications. So a merchant ship was generally very susceptible to sinking from taking torpedo damages. Mostly because they didn't have crew experienced in damage control from being under attack and they only had enough crew to run the ship, let alone massive damage control. They may know how to put out fires but sealing holes and quick welding of bulkheads and hatches wasn't always in their training duties. Unlike that of a warship in the respected navies.

Basically, the ship may be rusty and in need of some repair and spit and polish. But, if it could haul cargo, then it sails, even if it is only one torpedo away from sinking.

Maybe I heard wrong. Anyone got any actual facts on this?

[tater]

I just told you the facts.

The Imperial Japanese Army commandeered about 1/3 of jap merchant shipping. Guns were placed on most all. The Imperial Japanese Navy commandeered arund 1/3 the the jap merchant marine. Guns were placed as well. The remaining ~1/3 would have had guns placed sort of hit or miss.

Typical IJA transport:

Look at all the AA. Also a couple short, 3" deck guns.

Another IJA transport, 8 guns:


IJA Nagara Maru—in game with what, 2 guns? Real ship had EIGHT guns (her sisters similarly armed way in excess of SH4 as well). This is how she looked during the initial invasion period in 1942:


IJA ship in 1942—16 guns.



Armament means guns, depth charges, etc. Not armor, or damage control. The vast majority of jap ships sank with 1 torpedo hit, though some survived many hits. While most armament in terms of gun counts was AAA, the standard small AA was 13mm (0.50 cal more or less) at the start, and quickly updated to 25mm guns. The other guns were Dual Purpose (DP) guns that could be used vs surfaced subs, OR elevated for AA use. Jap merchant ships also frequently had hydrophones, and depth charges, though the latter were not dropped in any aimed way, just thrown over the side to scare subs, apparently.

IJA ships were typically filled with troops, so small arms would be in vast supply. A surface sub would face withering small arms fire if it was dumb enough to try for a daytime surface engagement, or even use the deck gun at night. Typical night-surface engagements were high speed torpedo boat tactics. Race through while firing as many tubes as possible while NOT shooting deck guns that would give your position away. Jap merchants would blaze away into the darkness.

Many more:
http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/modellist.htm

Originally Posted by Bothersome

... It was my understanding that merchant ships were built to move cargo and not built for surviving battles at sea. If it was ship worthy enough to survive high waves and weather that was expected, it was built to those specifications. So a merchant ship was generally very susceptible to sinking from taking torpedo damages. Basically, the ship may be rusty and in need of some repair and spit and polish. But, if it could haul cargo, then it sails, even if it is only one torpedo away from sinking...

Merchant ships could also prove remarkably tough and some cargos helped keep a damaged ship afloat even as other doomed a torpedo victim to rapid sinking. The vast majority certainly had watertight compartments and in some cases double hulls, double bottom's and hulls reinforced for operations in ice were incorporated into the original design.

The comments about the crews may be generally accurate but also lack context, Navy crews were disciplined and trained to save the ship but merchant seaman were inculcated into saving themselves. When the best chance of the latter coincided with doing the former they were capable of outstanding feats of damage control that are known and probably many that are unknown because they might not have been ultimately successful.

As for defensive guns, many ships, particularly passenger liners built pre-war outside the USA were government subsidized and had areas of the decks strengthened to take guns built into the design for use in the event of war. This was common in the British merchant marine and since much of Japanese maritime practice mirrored that of the UK it is reasonable to infer that they did something similar. Tater's links certainly point that way.

[Admiral8Q]

Cool info Tater! Thanks for that post!