Has the simulation been improved at all?

[Kapitanleutnant]

So, just off the top of my head, here are some features that I think would constitute an improvement over the previous games:

1: Aircraft Carriers being able to launch their planes.

2: Surface vessels having realistic physics (mass and inertia) so that they no longer accelerate to 30 knots in 10 seconds and turn on a dime.

3: Destroyers and torpedo boats being able to fire torpedoes.

Have any of these things been implemented in SH5? I'm sure other people can think of their own examples of improvements that would make a real difference.

Stay chill, don't be a dreamer. The answer to all your questions is "no". But I understand you, you are probably thinking you are at subsim. I thought that myself as well a long time. Regarding SH5 forum, we both are now at subRPG or subshooter, if you like. If you want some trace of simulation, my advice is to visit SH III forums.

[elanaiba]

1. Aircraft carriers have launched aircraft since SH4, you just don't see that in 3D. No change there.

2. No big changes there until now

3. No, but AI submarines are now able to shoot torpedoes. Thats new.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

1. Aircraft carriers have launched aircraft since SH4, you just don't see that in 3D. No change there.

2. No big changes there until now

3. No, but AI submarines are now able to shoot torpedoes. Thats new.

Hello. In the other thread, could you please clarify on what can and cannot be scripted in Sh5. Thank you.

[vickers03]

2: Surface vessels having realistic physics (mass and inertia) so that they no longer accelerate to 30 knots in 10 seconds and turn on a dime.

i'm wondering why this hasn't been touched, there
are mods already for this in sh4.

[elanaiba]

Originally Posted by vickers03

i'm wondering why this hasn't been touched, there
are mods already for this in sh4.

I mean touch them in a real, engine changing way.

[elanaiba]

I'm not the best person to answer those questions so I'll try to get some of the programming guys lurking around to answer those questions. I suspect they're already on it.

[walsh2509]

2: Surface vessels having realistic physics (mass and inertia) so that they no longer accelerate to 30 knots in 10 seconds and turn on a dime.



That's the one I want to know about , in 3 and 4 all ships could turn through 10 deg in the same amount of seconds. There was a mod out but it I think was only for Navy ships not Merchants or only some Merchants.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by walsh2509

2: Surface vessels having realistic physics (mass and inertia) so that they no longer accelerate to 30 knots in 10 seconds and turn on a dime.

No one has mentioned that the u-boats in the game were also guilty of this same bad behaviour.

That's the one I want to know about , in 3 and 4 all ships could turn through 10 deg in the same amount of seconds. There was a mod out but it I think was only for Navy ships not Merchants or only some Merchants.

Well, a Fletcher class destroyer could accelerate to 15 knots in the first minute. The problem is that they do it in the game in just a couple of seconds.

As for turning, the old 1906 battleship HMS Dreadnought could turn 90 degrees in the first 60 seconds, finally settling into a full turn rate of about 140 degrees per minute. Of course she lost a lot of speed doing it, and could only do that when travelling at her full 21 knots.

A Fletcher class DD was one of the worst-turning destroyers of the war, having only one rudder, but a smaller destroyer or corvette could turn quite rapidly - in the vicinity of 270 degrees per minute at full speed. At 12 knots - the maximum available for good sonar work - the turn rate was much worse.

But you are correct where the merchants are concerned: They start, stop and turn much too quickly in the game.

I'm hoping SH5 is better, or at least modable.

[tater]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

1. Aircraft carriers have launched aircraft since SH4, you just don't see that in 3D. No change there.

2. No big changes there until now

3. No, but AI submarines are now able to shoot torpedoes. Thats new.

Regarding number 1, not they don't conduct proper air operations. While I'm fine with AI aircraft on ships as an abstraction at some level, in SH4, it's best to literally turn that functionality off, or seriously curtail it.

The "airstike" paradigm in SH is such that once detected, the planes will swarm all over the place. In some limited circumstances---like escort carriers in the ATO---this behavior is not awful since the raison d'etre for CVEs in the ATO was to attack submarines. In general, however, ship based aircraft did NOT funtion with that as their sole purpose. So maybe 1-2 planes fly ASW watch, and if detected, virtually no more would be launched. Planes were instead (other than a few on CAP) held and launch ALL AT ONCE for an airstrike (rare).

As a result, you should at most see 1-2 planes above a CV, except during the CV's actual use as a CV, when virtually all planes would be aloft---but NONE would be attacking subs, since they'd be flying off to attack their REAL target far away. The CAP might still spot a sub (their eytes would be looking for PLANES, however, this would be VERY unlikely) in rare cases.

Bottom line is that for CVE escorted convoys, the SH airstrike paradigm is acceptable if properly modded, but for all other CV operations, it's best almost entirely removed for even a hint of realism.

Also, air o0ps are not at all realistic in general from an AI POV.

Having a couple planes aloft on ASW patrol or CAP is fine, but if the CV(E/L) needed to launch MORE planes, it would have to spot the new planes, then turn into the wind, and do the same to recover. That's a major failing, IMO.

With proper ship simulation, a CV caught launching or recovering aircraft would be steaming at a constant speed and NOT zig-zagging. An easy target. At virtually all other times it would be ZZing (as ALL ships should be doing (not independently, either, convoys should ZZ as a group)).

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

Stay chill, don't be a dreamer. The answer to all your questions is "no". But I understand you, you are probably thinking you are at subsim. I thought that myself as well a long time. Regarding SH5 forum, we both are now at subRPG or subshooter, if you like. If you want some trace of simulation, my advice is to visit SH III forums.

Thank You Gunnodayak My sentiments exactly.