Why did the RN in WW2 have open bridges for some vessels?

[Torvald Von Mansee]

This I don't get. I know visibility is better, but being open to the elements seems very silly.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

This I don't get. I know visibility is better, but being open to the elements seems very silly.

I don't know for sure, but I'll posit a theory. Someone else may well have a better answer.

IIRC, the reason for ships to have an open bridge in the days of yore was, as you mentioned, visibility. The same goes for WW2 ships, and even some fairly modern ones.

Originally, the open bridge was a necessity because technology did not exist to permit the captain or the senior officer on the bridge to relay orders to other parts of the ship from more than one location. Even when the voice pipe came about, it was still not really practical to have two bridges. A voice pipe is just a tube to channel sound, and the more openings it has the less effective it is.

Another reason for the open bridge was to permit operation of the ship's compass, which would not function well within an iron or steel bridge enclosure.

My guess is that since many WW2 RN vessels were designed well before the start of WW2 it was either impractical to refit them with multiple bridges and additional control devices or they just weren't refitted at all. Britain was still reeling from the costs of WW1 then, as the compensation from Germany under the Versailles treaty amounted to very little. In short, they just didn't have the money to construct all manner of fancy ships, so they just went with the simplest solution on the smaller vessels.

To what extent this is true, I cannot say, but hopefully someone with more knowledge on the subject will have a more definitive answer.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I don't know for sure, but I'll posit a theory. Someone else may well have a better answer.

IIRC, the reason for ships to have an open bridge in the days of yore was, as you mentioned, visibility. The same goes for WW2 ships, and even some fairly modern ones.

Originally, the open bridge was a necessity because technology did not exist to permit the captain or the senior officer on the bridge to relay orders to other parts of the ship from more than one location. Even when the voice pipe came about, it was still not really practical to have two bridges. A voice pipe is just a tube to channel sound, and the more openings it has the less effective it is.

Another reason for the open bridge was to permit operation of the ship's compass, which would not function well within an iron or steel bridge enclosure.

My guess is that since many WW2 RN vessels were designed well before the start of WW2 it was either impractical to refit them with multiple bridges and additional control devices or they just weren't refitted at all. Britain was still reeling from the costs of WW1 then, as the compensation from Germany under the Versailles treaty amounted to very little. In short, they just didn't have the money to construct all manner of fancy ships, so they just went with the simplest solution on the smaller vessels.

To what extent this is true, I cannot say, but hopefully someone with more knowledge on the subject will have a more definitive answer.

Strangely enough, I once remember seeing a photo of a batch of WW1 destroyers delivered to Britain under Lend Lease, and the caption mentioned how the DDs would be altered by having their bridges made open air. That would seem to indicate it's a doctrine motive rather than economic, but I'm not that knowledgeable on the subject. I'll bet there's someone around here who knows off the top of his head!!

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I don't know for sure, but I'll posit a theory. Someone else may well have a better answer.

IIRC, the reason for ships to have an open bridge in the days of yore was, as you mentioned, visibility. The same goes for WW2 ships, and even some fairly modern ones.

Originally, the open bridge was a necessity because technology did not exist to permit the captain or the senior officer on the bridge to relay orders to other parts of the ship from more than one location. Even when the voice pipe came about, it was still not really practical to have two bridges. A voice pipe is just a tube to channel sound, and the more openings it has the less effective it is.

Another reason for the open bridge was to permit operation of the ship's compass, which would not function well within an iron or steel bridge enclosure.

My guess is that since many WW2 RN vessels were designed well before the start of WW2 it was either impractical to refit them with multiple bridges and additional control devices or they just weren't refitted at all. Britain was still reeling from the costs of WW1 then, as the compensation from Germany under the Versailles treaty amounted to very little. In short, they just didn't have the money to construct all manner of fancy ships, so they just went with the simplest solution on the smaller vessels.

To what extent this is true, I cannot say, but hopefully someone with more knowledge on the subject will have a more definitive answer.

Good theory.

This may sound stupid, but one possible factor-weight savings.
Enclosed bridge means more steel plating for protection=more weight.
Also the added weight higher up may have made for some ungodly rolling in heavy seas with possibility of capsizing.
Just guessing. My knowledge of maritime engineering is lacking.

[Letum]

Almost all ships with an open bridge also have an enclosed bridge too.

Almost all ships with an open bridge also have an enclosed bridge too.

Perfect.
What is a bridge?

This I don't get.

What is a RN bridge and what is a USN bridge?
Is a platform a bridge or is it a station?
Is a station a platform or a bridge?
What is a platform and what is a bridge?
What is a bridge and what is a flying bridge?
When is a station a platform and when are they are bridge?

Open "bridges" occured in many navies , the reasons(as well as the nomenclature) are widespread and diverse.
So answer#1 may be weight
Answer#2 visibility(in the increased inter war period regarding air threats)
Answer#3 stability
#4cost
#5 ops
#6..as to the question...RN resources

I suppose the main questions are what do you call a bridge and what do you call open?

[ReFaN]

Fresh air is always good

A second opinion...

When the RN started converting from sail to steam the desirable trait in a naval officer was character rather than professional skill. That said, one had to stand bravely on the quarterdeck in all weather conditions and as shot and shell flew in battle. To do otherwise would be "ungentlemanly" and unworthy of a Naval Officer.

The problem was that ironclad battleships could no longer be commanded from the quarterdeck and so command had to move forward to an elevated superstructure called a "flying bridge" and later just "bridge". However, the requirement to remain exposed to the elements and enemy fire remained in spite of all reasons to the contrary.

The more pragmatic U.S. and German navies went to enclose bridges before the Dreadnaught era but the RN stuck to their open bridges until HMS Nelson from the 1922 programme and the main reason for it was to provide protection from the muzzle blasts of the ships own guns. Even then, the enclosed bridges were unpopular with some of the old guard who had spent the Great War on open bridges. So essentially there was no reason to retain open bridges other than an institutional resistance to change and a "It was good enough for me dammit" mindset.

Note that the designers provided armoured conning towers and enclosed wheel houses from the 1890's but these were generally avoided by the executive officers while on watch. WW2 again demonstrated the logical fallacy behind the idea of fighting the ship in the open and later wartime construction saw enclosed bridges incorporated into new construction even as the ship's command elements started to move from the bridge to an "Operations Room" (CIC in the USN). Also the social nature of the Navy had changed so getting under cover carried none of the stigma that effected the Navy from when the leadership was still steeped in the traditions of wood and sail.

It's a good question and one difficult to find solid information about however the following books have mention of this very subject in passing:

British Battleships 1860 - 1950 by Oscar Parkes

The Rules of the Game, Jutland and British Naval Command by Andrew Gordon

The Anatomy of British Sea Power 1860 - 1905 by Arthur Marder