Some Issues Common (it seems) to all Megamods

[nodlew]

The following are some problems I've had with SH4 1.5 and which seem to persist in every megamod for SH4 1.5, so maybe they are hard-coded--not fixable, but until I ask the experts, I'll never know.

#1

Playing an American Career, after ID-ing a target, I have to use the mouse to click through the Recognition Manual until I have found the identified ship. Unlike SH3 GWX, and unlike SH4 when playing as a U-Boot, I cannot just click on the ship name in the TDC and have my Rec Manual open to the correct page. There are a lot of ships in that Rec Manual now. All that clicking can actually be painful. If the Manual can't open to the proper page, how about a Keyboard button to flip through the Manual? I'd rather tap than click.

#2

Here is another thing which is apparently common to all mods and therefore either represents an unfix-able problem, or no problem except my failure to understand the device's function. In the Command Room there is a bulkhead with gauges on it. All of these gauges work correctly, but (or so it seems to me) the compass is screwy. The compass shows only the Cardinal Directions, N,S,E,W and it has an arrow pointer which indicates the direction of travel of my sub relative to those headings. But the arrow pointer seems backwards for East and West, although it points true to North and South. If I turn my sub to Due East, the pointer indicates Due West. It can't be that I'm looking at the wrong end of the pointer, since there is only one end. If I turn my sub to SW, the pointer points SE, and there is no way to correct for it except to consider SE as SW and vice versa.

There are plenty of compasses, but it irks me nonetheless.

#3

One other thing. It is not realistic that one should have to have a target framed in any of the scopes+TBT in order to use the Stadimeter. One should be able to pull down a split image of the open ocean and send a range and bearing to the TDC based on the mast height currently dialed into the TDC range finder (using Target Dial Fix) and the position of the scope\TBT. This is more than just a niggling realism issue. The quickest way to target a torpedo (set a specific gyro angle) is to point the scope and use the stadimeter to send a range and bearing to the TDC. When trying to "hip shoot" a target that is zig-zagging, often I have to turn off the Position Keeper, dial in a guess as to AOB, set target speed to zero since I am manually leading the target at close range, then point the scope at the area of ocean at which I expect the torpedo to intercept the target and lock in the bearing and range with the Stadimeter. As the Stadimeter works now, I have to point right at the target--have to have it in my crosshairs, or I cannot use the stadimeter--so I cannot point out ahead of it and input a lead. This is frustrating. Using the U-boat interface--KiUB--doing this kind of snap-shooting is the simplest thing in the world--the torpedoe's gyro angle is continuously updated as the attack scope pans. Furthermore--using the KiUB interface, one can use the German version of the Stadimeter without being locked onto or even having a target in the scope. So why can't we do the same with the American version?

Any comments knowledgeable, helpful, or otherwise will be read with interest.

[FIREWALL]

Good post nodlew

I hope some good answers come forth.

[aanker]

Originally Posted by nodlew

The following are some problems I've had with SH4 1.5 .....

#2

Here is another thing which is apparently common to all mods and therefore either represents an unfix-able problem, or no problem except my failure to understand the device's function. In the Command Room there is a bulkhead with gauges on it. All of these gauges work correctly, but (or so it seems to me) the compass is screwy. The compass shows only the Cardinal Directions, N,S,E,W and it has an arrow pointer which indicates the direction of travel of my sub relative to those headings. But the arrow pointer seems backwards for East and West, although it points true to North and South. If I turn my sub to Due East, the pointer indicates Due West. It can't be that I'm looking at the wrong end of the pointer, since there is only one end. If I turn my sub to SW, the pointer points SE, and there is no way to correct for it except to consider SE as SW and vice versa.

There are plenty of compasses, but it irks me nonetheless.

I'm joining you in your disappointment with #2 the CR. That Aft Nav station shouldn't even be there from pictures I've seen. But it is there.

That aft gyro-repeater compass box looked to me like it was designed to be an engine telegraph box (because it matches the other box to the left with the same knob) plus there is 1 other gyro-repeater compass by the helmsman CR station - plus the gyroscope in the CR so I just got rid of it on my install and with much help moved it to the right, changed it to a telegraph and put a knot-meter in the middle instead, but that idea went over like a lead balloon. I'd like to see somebody gut that whole station someday. At least Vickers made things look and work better however it is still devoid of reality.. lol.

Vickers did a tremendous job with the interiors so you might want to try his. I'm using his interiors now. I think he may have that Aft Nav station gyroscope working correctly and I believe he fixed the other gyroscope and gyro repeater to have the outer rings correct ... at least one of the outer rings was 180d off if I remember right.

Happy Hunting!

Art

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by aanker

That aft gyro-repeater compass box looked to me like it was designed to be an engine telegraph box (because it matches the other box to the left with the same knob) plus there is 1 other gyro-repeater compass by the helmsman CR station - plus the gyroscope in the CR so I just got rid of it on my install and with much help moved it to the right, changed it to a telegraph and put a knot-meter in the middle instead, but that idea went over like a lead balloon. I'd like to see somebody gut that whole station someday. At least Vickers made things look and work better however it is still devoid of reality.. lol.

I've modified it in RFB to mimic the helmsman's CR station, though I wholeheartedly agree it shouldn't be there at all. One of these days it'll get fixed.

[nodlew]

One exaggerates not to mislead, but to enlighten.

I have still not been able to fix the compass. Like I said, I'm new to modding. This stuff is only starting to make sense. I've been trying to fix it in the Porpoise. Using Silent 3ditor I have picked through the Porpoise_CT.sim file. I have found 4 Gyro Compasses, but so far, changing the Display Value of any of them to min180 max-180 has not fixed the Command Room compass. Am I still looking in the wrong file?

Found the relevant setting is the Porpoise CR.sim file, Dial Index #79. Edited the Display Value to min-180 max180 and the Real Value to min180 max-180 and now the Aft Gyro Compass points true. Now all I have to do is get the Diesel Engine Telegraph to stop behaving like a Rudder, and get the compass at the Helm to work and I have fixed my Porpoise. I think.

[aanker]

Originally Posted by nodlew

I have still not been able to fix the compass. Like I said, I'm new to modding. This stuff is only starting to make sense. I've been trying to fix it in the Porpoise. Using Silent 3ditor I have picked through the Porpoise_CT.sim file. I have found 4 Gyro Compasses, but so far, changing the Display Value of any of them to min180 max-180 has not fixed the Command Room compass. Am I still looking in the wrong file?

\Data\Interior\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato_CR.sim

I haven't looked at the P-class yet, I'm still in the Gato interiors but in Vickers Gato CR sim it is #96 / #97 for the Aft Nav station gyrocompass:

DispVal Min -180.0 Max 180.0
RealVal Min 180.0 Max -180
- - - - - - - - - -
The clock is right above it if that helps:

#91 ClockHour - Aft Nav station
----------
#93 Clockminute - Aft Nav station
----------
#95 Batteries - Aft Nav station
DispVal Min -134.0 Max 134.0
RealVal Min 0.0 Max 1.0
--------------------------------------------------
#97 Gyrocompass - Aft Nav station
DispVal Min -180.0 Max 180.0
RealVal Min 180.0 Max -180
- - - - - - - - - -
--------------------------------------------------

Hope that helps

Art

[aanker]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

I've modified it in RFB to mimic the helmsman's CR station, though I wholeheartedly agree it shouldn't be there at all. One of these days it'll get fixed.

Thanks LukeFF!

Art

[nodlew]

Thanks for your response, Aanker. As is customary with my luck, your help arrives the instant I have solved the problem in my plodding, determined way. I'm sure the extra info will come in handy though.

[nodlew]

#1 Porpoise Aft Gyro Compass
Fixed the relevant setting in the SH4\Data\Interior\NSS_Porpoise\ NSS_Porpoise CR.sim file, Dial Index #79. Edited the Display Value to min-180 max180 and the Real Value to min180 max-180 and now the Aft Gyro Compass points true.

#2 Porpoise Helm Knotmeter
Edited same CR.sim file as above Dial Index #35. Dial Type-Speed
Changed Real Val Maximum from 46.3, which was too slow, to Real Val Maximum 12.3*, which after trials appears to be very close to correct. May need final anal adjustment.
*Changed value to 12.8611 to agree with value found in Porpoise_CT.sim file. Reads accurately now.*
*Then again the stock value seems to lag about half a knot. Maybe my value was better.

#3 Fixed Aft Starboard Engine Telegraph
Found correct values in Porpoise_CT.sim file at Dial Index #15. Edited Porpoise_CR.sim file at Dial Index #89 to be exactly the same. Changed dial Type from Rudder to ThrottleStarb. Changed DisplayVal to min225 max165. Changed RealVal to min 0.0 max 10.0. Changed Command from nothing to Command=Set Telegraph.

3A Fixed Aft Port Engine Telegraph
Made same edits as above to Index #85 with the following difference--Type was changed to ThrottlePort

#4 Fixed Aft Depth Meters Values taken from meters that work.

Edited Porpoise_CR.sim file at Index #87 to fix Shallow Depth Meter. Changed DisplayVal to Min-134.0 Max 137.0. Changed RealVal to Min 4.572 Max 50.292. Changed Command from Nothing to Command=Set Depth.

Edited Porpoise_CR.sim file at Index #91 to fix Deep Depth Meter. Changed DisplayVal to min-162.5 Max162.5. Changed
RealVal to Min 0 Max 137.16. Changed command to Command=Set Depth.

#5 Fixed Compressed Air Gauge
Edited Index #65. Changed Dial Type to ComprAir. Changed DisplayVal to Min-150 Max 150. Changed RealVal to Min 0.0 Max 200.0.
Gauge now reads at 100%. However, sitting in place with engines all stop and sinking to 300 ft, then rising back to the surface produces no depletion of compressed air--neither on the Gauge edited, nor on my Taskbar Gui Compressed Air meter. Realism is set to 100%.
?
Apparently compressed air goes a lot further than I thought. Was able to sit still and drop to 300 ft then rise back to 50 ft over and over before the Gauge droped at all. Compressed air did drop though, and the Gauge read accurately.

[TH0R]

Originally Posted by nodlew

#3

One other thing. It is not realistic that one should have to have a target framed in any of the scopes+TBT in order to use the Stadimeter. One should be able to pull down a split image of the open ocean and send a range and bearing to the TDC based on the mast height currently dialed into the TDC range finder (using Target Dial Fix) and the position of the scope\TBT. This is more than just a niggling realism issue. The quickest way to target a torpedo (set a specific gyro angle) is to point the scope and use the stadimeter to send a range and bearing to the TDC. When trying to "hip shoot" a target that is zig-zagging, often I have to turn off the Position Keeper, dial in a guess as to AOB, set target speed to zero since I am manually leading the target at close range, then point the scope at the area of ocean at which I expect the torpedo to intercept the target and lock in the bearing and range with the Stadimeter. As the Stadimeter works now, I have to point right at the target--have to have it in my crosshairs, or I cannot use the stadimeter--so I cannot point out ahead of it and input a lead. This is frustrating. Using the U-boat interface--KiUB--doing this kind of snap-shooting is the simplest thing in the world--the torpedoe's gyro angle is continuously updated as the attack scope pans. Furthermore--using the KiUB interface, one can use the German version of the Stadimeter without being locked onto or even having a target in the scope. So why can't we do the same with the American version?

Any comments knowledgeable, helpful, or otherwise will be read with interest.

I find manual TDC in SH4 much easier than in SH3. For example, finding a proper gyro angle on the zig-zaging target is farely easy in SH4. First you ID the target, then find a range and send it to TDC. After 2-3 min you send another range (usually after the target has zig-zagged once or twice so you can estimate its new course) to the TDC. After you have 2 ranges/bearings, click the chronometer icon on the speed sub-menu of the TDC (or in other words - your XO will do the job of calculating the proper target hdg for you). After you have the heading and estimated speed - enter it in the TDC. Entering the hdg is a bit 'tricky' since the dial on the left doesn't follow the one on the right but it is fairly easy to do. After you have done all that - send another range to the TDC and activate the Stadimeter and you're good to go.

I try to avoid this method as it is too easy for me, only if I am spotted I will use it, as it gives me the needed gyro angle very quickly. The method I like the most is the O'Kane's method, described in one of the videos here. Probably in the sticky here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108931

&

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795

[vickers03]

I'm joining you in your disappointment with #2 the CR. That Aft Nav station shouldn't even be there from pictures I've seen. But it is there.

the good thing about the compass with the needle is
you can take a quick look and now immediately where
you are going.
most of them have been repaired in my interiors i think,
have to check it again.

[nodlew]

Aanker thanks for the explanation and solution for the Compass Repeater in the engine room. I'll download Vickers' Interiors mod immediately.

Vickers, thanks for fixing it.

Thor, thanks for your reply. But I know how to use the TDC at full realism, and under normal circumstances I'm quite lethal with it at up to quite long ranges using the PK and the XO's helpful course and speed calculations. When a target is alerted and zig-zagging, however, I find that method liable to be a waste of torpedoes as course and speed are changing moment to moment and his estimates become increasingly at odds with what I am seeing right before my eyes. When he says the target is moving at 5 kts at a bearing of 92 deg what he means is that given the targets position at time 1 and the targets new position at time 2, that is what the target's course and speed averages out to over X seconds. Actually, the target I am shooting at is moving across my bow at 9 kts at any given time at a heading that is rapidly going from 0 deg N to 90 deg E over that period of time. If I were to match speed with the target and plot its zig zags, I could use the TDC with PK on to determine the exact right time to fire so that my torpedo intercepts the target along bearing X after Y seconds, but that seems laborious to me. I should be able to turn the PK off and input a serviceable Guestimate as I described below using the Stadimeter. When I am trailing a target 500 yds behind, that should be easy to do, and damn near a sure thing to hit the target. The artificial (gameyfied) function of the Stadimeter is making it rather difficult.

[Bubblehead1980]

As far as stadimeter goes, TMO has a stadimeter fix mod in it that fixed it so range is easy to input manually.Should be able to use it without having a target but why would you? in RL they prob wouldnt just use stadimeter on open ocean with no reference point such as masts of a ship.In stock or mod like RFB the range/bearing dial still needs a fix but can work, just got to learn it.

Yea the compass and the aft stations annoy me, lately i've learned the devs fouled up the Gato/Balao/Gar/Tambor interiors a bit, the ladder should be between the planesmen.LukeFF said some had the ladders moved postwar, but still an F up because SH 4 simulates WAR TIME subs, so boats should be in war time configuarations.

I guess the ID book is a pain , I refuse to use the auto ID most of the time....do it myself.Sure most players would like for it to automatically pan to the proper page though.

[nodlew]

The reason I want the option to use the Stadimeter without a a target in the sights is this--in a Fleet Boat in SH4, the Stadimeter is the ONLY WAY to input a BEARING into the Sub's fire control system. I cannot just mouse the TDC dial to any bearing I want. I can manually input Range, Course, and Speed using the Targeting Dials Fix (which I use and am grateful for). Bearing, however, requires that the Stadimeter be used, and the Stadimeter will not pull down unless there is a ship contacting the vertical line bisecting one of the scopes (attack, observation, TBT). In real life, the Bearing would not come from the Scope Lock (which did not exist), it came from a dude standing in front of the guy looking through the periscope reading the bearing from a ring on the periscope itself ("Mark!" Captain says. "Bearing: 350 degrees!" the other dude says.") then the guy at the TDC would dial in the bearing, range, speed, and aob, and start the position keeper. Subsequent observations allowed for corrections and refinements until the Solution was arrived at--ie, all of the elements of the equation agreed with each other very closely. What we have is a regrettably dumbed-down version of the TDC, which automates functions that would have been performed by crew members. The result is a TDC that is wonderful for computing solutions for targets that are moving at a constant speed and heading, but which is absurdly restricted and difficult to use when those functions are constantly changing. I find that the easiest (Ha!) way to snap-shoot a zig-zagging target (given this situation) is to preset my torpedo for a 0 bearing to a target going 0 kts at 0 degrees and then point the whole boat like a big gun and fire at my estimated lead angle--and in order to simply set my torpedo at a gyro angle of 0 degrees (shooting straight ahead) in order to do this, I have to turn my boat until I have a ship contacting the scope\tbt line, then use the Stadimeter to send the bearing. Does this not sound unnecessarily slow, complicated, and labor-intensive to you? I mean, come on.

[etheberge]

Originally Posted by nodlew

#1

Playing an American Career, after ID-ing a target, I have to use the mouse to click through the Recognition Manual until I have found the identified ship. Unlike SH3 GWX, and unlike SH4 when playing as a U-Boot, I cannot just click on the ship name in the TDC and have my Rec Manual open to the correct page. There are a lot of ships in that Rec Manual now. All that clicking can actually be painful. If the Manual can't open to the proper page, how about a Keyboard button to flip through the Manual? I'd rather tap than click.

This functionality does exist, at least with OM and TMO, not sure about RFB or vanilla 1.4/1.5.

All you have to do is click on the word "Ship" to the left of the actual ship's name after you ID'ed it. After that when you open the Rec manual it will already be on the correct page.

Believe me, I was pretty happy when I found out about this recently too. Scrolling through all those new ships was getting to be a real pain.